Energy efficiency makes sense

Awhile back I heard for every "green" job created 2.2 jobs are lost.

This article is complete fantasy.

I should have known Pro-American would be against something that makes sense.Actually I knew there would be a comment on here even before I looked. Thanks for the chuckle.Typical conservative garbage.

Ok, for those who aren't aware (or won't admit the truth)... the reason that prices for energy have gone up is because it is a commodity and our dollar has gone down. It has nothing to do with the environment.

Our company looked into buying wind turbines to produce at least part of our electricity needs. It doesn't even come close to paying for itself without at least an 80-85% government subsidy. Even with the subsidies, those big windmills you see along some highways are now starting to require drivetrain maintenance and repairs that are very expensive and killing the return on investment. Just like the ethanol debacle, clean energy is the latest hot topic for politicians to try to sound relevant and concerned about the environment. I'm in favor of funding for research for alternative energy, but we're not at the point where these technologies are ready for prime time just yet.

The next viable solution for getting off of gasoline is CNG. The other "green" crap just isn't there yet, probably another 20 years before any of it is near economic feasibility. It will happen, we just aren't there yet.

It makes no sense to take a cold turkey approach to our problems by limited ourselves to what political talking points say we should be doing... the free market works best in this case for reasons justsayin pointed out above.

Whoever suggested "cold turkey" in US move to sustainable energy? Just as the Amish are still using horse and buggy for transportation, some folks will choose to continue using fossil fuels for some time to come. Early adopters for wind, solar, geothermal, and other green energy sources will find themselves in the green financially sooner rather than later, as energy from fossil fuels is becoming increasingly expensive.

The higher cost isn't all from the cost of commodities. We switched from gas heat to geothermal several years back for one building, but continued to use gas for cooking and "on demand" hot water heater. Our gas bill plummeted from $350 to $400 per month to $12 or so. Dominion East Ohio has now instituted a much higher "minimum" bill, so we've ended all gas service. As those gas prices continue to rise, our investment in geothermal looks better and better.

I live in Alameda California an island in the San Francisco Bay. The city is about 80,000 people and has it's own electrical power company. About 80% of the power comes from renewable clean energy. Geothermal, hydroelectric, wind power, solar and landfill gas. It's probably the cleanest energy company in America and the price to the customer is less than Pacific Gas and Electric the major utility provider.

http://www.alamedamp.com/electricity/

Cambridge, did a little research on your power company, scratching the service really. The rates are lower than PG&E because PG&E went bankrupt back in '04.

Wikipedia: "PG&E emerged from bankruptcy in April 2004, after distributing $10.2 billion to hundreds of creditors. Its 4.8 million electricity customers are expected to pay an average $1,300 to $1,700 each in above-market prices through 2012."

So how does Alameda Municipal compare to market utility prices since PG&E is $1,300 to $1,700 above market?

Search....Alameda Power is 13% cheaper than PG&E. I knew you would have a problem with a power company that was 80% clean energy but I thought it would be because it's municipally run. No million dollar CEOs no bloated executive overhead. Just less expensive electricity and millions to the city in revenue. You know, socialism.

It's not cheaper than market though. Like Obama said, prices necessarily have to sky rocket for those things to become possible. I would like to keep it cheap until those things are just as cheap. I don't have a problem with clean energy, I have a problem with forcing people to have higher bills than they should.

I would be outraged if I were a PG&E customer because they are paying an outrageous amount over the market price. To compare Alameda and PG&E is deceptive since PG&E is not representative of the market. You've done much better than that cambridge.

Try comparing their rates to an Ohio company.

Search....Feel free to compare anything you want. Why would I compare what something cost where I live to something on the other side of the country. I don't live in Ohio and I wouldn't even if the electricity was free.

The letter is about the pros of clean efficient energy. All I did is give an example of what one city is doing. I'm happy to live in a city where I pay less for electricity than the cities around mine and the city takes in millions in revenue and reinvests that money into the community. It's obvious that scenario isn't attractive to everyone. I really don't know what else to say about it.

"Please stay in the AIDS infected" isn't that Detroit.

Cambridge, I was just saying that it was misleading to frame it that way since pg&e is an exception to the general rule. I'm glad that you are happy with your power service I care more about making it affordable than trying to push for things ahead of their time during a recession or... when I'm broke and it comes out of the consumers' pockets.

Pro, that's excessive regulation and government failure (unintended consequences)... not socialism. I think you've lost sense of what socialism is.

UnAmerican...."Another reason California had blackout and brownouts in because it banned the construction of new electrical power plants."

Once again you are full of crap. I worked on the design of the Peco Power Plant that was built in 2004 in San Jose, California. A 250 million dollar project. The company I worked for also worked on the design of a similar plant the year before. Just two of a number that were built in the state.

California had brownouts because Enron cut the power, Simple as that. Remember Enron? That's what deregulation and lack of government oversight gets you.

UnHinged....It never ceases to amaze me that no matter how many times you make a fool of yourself it will never stop you from making s**t up. Always good for a laugh.

Socialism is the public ownership of the means of production. The kind that is destructive is the one by governments, federal in particular. There is also coops such as credit unions or mutually owned companies; most people cant tell the difference between them and regular companies...

excessive regulation is a symptom of socialism not socialism itself... in the case you talk about it has nothing to even do with it.

UnHinged...."The power was cut because California didn't build a new power plant in 30+ years."

The California Energy Commission says: Liar Liar pants on fire.

http://www.energy.ca.gov/nuclear/cali...

The link is only for the nuke plants. If you need me to post links for gas fired or hydroelectric plants let me know. You never get tired of looking stupid do you? I know I never get tired of reading it.

UnHinged,,,,Below is a link that shows a map of power plants in California. There is also a link of power plant projects since 1996. I worked as a industrial pipefitter. My union builds power plants.

The way you make things up is good for a laugh because I know your full of crap. But in reality people like you are just as dangerous as Glenn Beck, Rush or any of those other idiots that make stuff up. There are a lot of people that like you, hate Democrats, unions, Obama or whatever. Then along comes some as***le like you or the others I mentioned and you just make something up and these idiots believe it because they want it to be true. Turns out that they are just as big a fool as you are. People with a brain arn't buying into that crap any more but you can keep on trying.

http://www.energy.ca.gov/maps/power_p...

http://www.energy.ca.gov/sitingcases/...

Cambridge,,,,your original post of why you enjoy living in your community has come under attack. Don't you know by now that the "Conservatives have all the answers and you must do things their way or you are a Socialist or a Communist?

I find the same problem with the Liberals. Everything is black or white to these people. Life is full of gray areas that require compromise from both directions for the correct answer to be found.

Most often we find the truth in the "Middle" of most arguments.

OK.....I am done...let the name calling begin.

Energy efficiency does make sense, but at what cost? Most everything I see available in our stores that is energy efficient is made overseas. Do we produce anything in good ole USA anymore? Its no wonder our economy is in the tank.

I recently had a discussion with an engineer working for the VA, who was attempting to supply electrical products, such as lite switches and power outlets, to his VA facility. The VA rules and guidelines require those products to be "made in USA". The engineer was surprised to discover he could not find any of those products to be made in USA. I finally located a supplier for him that had products "made in America", which included products of North America, including Mexico. The engineer had to accept "Made in America" products, as that was as close as he was going to get, rather than buying Chinese made products. What a shame!

Remember Obama's promise of "Clean coal technology" and how many jobs tht was going to create? Now we have "cap and trade" making it's rounds on Capital Hill- the nail in the coffin for the coal industry.

I am no particular fan of the French, but they have been building new Nuclear plants for the last 20 years and now almost 90% of their electricty is generated this way. We have been running our Navy on nuclear power for the last 40+ years without incident so the technology is proven. If we had done what the French have done, instead of burying our heads in the sand because the tree huggers kept screaming the sky is falling, we could be well on the way to energy independence.

Building a hundred or so power plants over the next 20 years will provide many jobs and stimulate this economy much more than the $787 B of our Children and Grandchildren's money that Obama & Co are spending with minimal results!

I just read a report by Policy Matters Ohio related to clean energy. The report, "A Comparison of Climate Legislation Studies" took a close look at the top dozen current studies to try to make some sense of it all. They found legitimate and substantive differences in assumptions about key economic concerns. In effect, for every study that projects job loss, there is another that projects job gain.