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Think we evolved from apes? On the contrary, Kent prof says

Published: Fri, October 2, 2009 @ 12:10 a.m.

The KSU anthropologist has been part of a major research effort in recent years.


KENT — A Kent State University professor of anthropology says we should throw out all those posters and books that depict an ape evolving into a human being.

C. Owen Lovejoy, an internationally recognized biological anthropologist who specializes in the study of human origins, is one of the primary authors who revealed their research findings Thursday on Ardipithecus ramidus, a hominid species that lived 4.4 million years ago in what is now Ethiopia.

“People often think we evolved from apes, but no, apes in many ways evolved from us,” Lovejoy said. “It has been a popular idea to think humans are modified chimpanzees. From studying Ardipithecus ramidus, or ‘Ardi,’ we learn that we cannot understand or model human evolution from chimps and gorillas.”

A special issue of Science (www.sciencemag.org) available today will feature 11 papers that are the first formal description of Ardi, a partial female skeleton. Lovejoy was first author on five papers and contributed to an additional three. For the past seven years, he has been a part of a major international research effort studying Ardi, serving as post-cranial anatomist and behavioral theorist.

One of Lovejoy’s most recognized achievements is the reconstruction of the skeleton of “Lucy,” a fossil of a human ancestor that walked upright more than 3 million years ago.

“Ardi is 1 million years older than Lucy, more informative than Lucy, and Ardi changes what we know about human evolution,” he said.

When comparing Ardi to Lucy, Lovejoy said that working on Ardi was much more exciting and interesting. “She provides real answers,” he said.

Lovejoy has taught at Kent State for 40 years and holds the honor of being one of the Institute for Scientific Information’s “Most Highly Cited” authors in social sciences. In 2007, he was elected to membership in the National Academy of Sciences for excellence in original scientific research.

To watch a video of Lovejoy discussing the research findings of Ardipithecus ramidus, visit www.kent.edu. A Discovery Channel special featuring Lovejoy and Kent State also will air this month.


11rumdum(3 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

cartoons and sci fi and legitimate scientific discovery are sometimes just tweeked versions of actuality seen and illustrated in bible scripture

when you see the light walk there in be enlightened it takes way more imagination energy engineering and spin of mental illness to think and worse believe man comes from apes. if you really believe this marry them , procreate with them and raise children.

no matter how long you breed a dog size color prferences can change....but all are dogs not cats bears or antelopes

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2here(17 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

1rumdum: Biological science defines a species as the reproductive isolation of a group from all other groups of organisms. Therefore, H. sapiens won't be procreating and raising children with 'apes' anytime soon.

Proamerican: This research, nor any paleoanthropology that I know of, has ever come close to saying that something came from nothing. This publication documents a legitimate, relatively young (4.4 million / 65 billion) fossil that EXISTS and came from an organism that once LIVED on this planet. Although it does shake up some hypotheses (none of which are even hinted at in this article, so if you want to discuss them, do research somewhere else), the skeleton fits rights in with the very real hominid records.

Vindicator: uhhh... Good job on addressing the "where, why and how" this research is so significant...? Any one who has taken and introductory anthropology class would know that the 'ape to human' picture should have been thrown out decades ago (but since it's so profane to teach true human biology in high school, I'll forgive you). Your headline and the article's implications seem like an obvious attempt to raise voices to me.

Serch4Answers: No scientist will deny that the answer to life, the universe and everything is beyond our knowledge. If years and years from now, biological anthropologists conclude that there is a definitive end to fossil record, and that there is no other explanation than intervention from some source beyond what modern science can explain, I'm sure some form of 'creationism' will become the new 'science'. However, there is still much evidence to be traced and deciphered. Scientists are far from reaching a dead end, so until that day comes, I believe the only intelligent thing to do is accept the facts as facts and faith as faith.

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3pj(80 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

My opinion is; we all came from God. Now people being to look like & act like Apes.

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4ytownsteelman(680 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

But which God? Every religion has a God, and they all say that theirs is the only one. So which one was it?

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5UnionForever(1470 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

Yes, the theory of evolution is alive and well. Just look around and you can see our common ancestors everywhere. God did not create man 10,000 years ago as some Republican Neanderthols are saying. We have common ancestors with the apes and monkies of the present world even if it was 4+ million years ago.

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6penguinswin(21 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

At last, science is saying what Godfearing people have been saying forever. Man did not come from an ape..............a much more divine and inspiring reading comes from Genesis in the Bible (BTW - Bible stands for - Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth!) Read it some time.

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7Tugboat(759 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

Proof that we did evolve from apes?


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8Attis(1114 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

junk science, sensationalistic journalism, and an egomaniacal junk scientist combine to create much ado about nothing, absolutely nothing.

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9redvert(2226 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

How many of you readers are surprised that none of these comments have progressed to where they are being banned. I know I was tempted. I am sure the Vindy staff is watching this one closely!

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10VINDYAK(1824 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

We may one day discover where we came from. How we arrived upon this rock called earth and how we were placed here. I believe only death gives us the answer for the moment. Time and progressive intelligence will allow us to discover what has been written about our future, as well as our past.

Now, if we can only figure out where we are going. This journey is being segmented into many directions. Many of us prefer the route outlined by our religion, but many others are not concerned and prefer the path of personal gratification at the expense of others.

I believe religion was given to us by God to keep us on the right path and establish humanity on earth as good work. Who knows how many other "earths" are out there in our Universe, going through the same situations, or have destroyed themselves by not following the path. It is up to all of us to keep this good work going, or our children's children will face the burning wrath that our humanity could unleash. This is scary, as many of us feel humanity is moving backwards.

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11Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

With today's technology of gene splicing it is entirely possible to cross an ape with a human . It is still impossible to change an ape into a human . So how many of you feel a kinship with the apes ? I don't, because I was endowed with higher level thinking that seperates us from all animals . God created the fools amongst us for amusement purposes . Total perfection may not be achievable but total stupidity sure is .

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12AtownParent(565 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

Religion was created by men to control other men.

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13redvert(2226 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

ProAmerican, you asked Unionforever how he or anyone else would know what happened 4 million years ago. You then proceed to tell Unionforever what happened way back when. How old are you?

By the way, where did God come from?

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14Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

UnionForever :

Neanderthals are still alive but are not Republicans !!

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15redvert(2226 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

Pro, you would be good at dodge ball. You never touched my questions, did a good dance and impressed "hope" though.

I have been accused of not answering specific questions and looking back, I am guilty of getting off the subject. After the last time I decided to try to do better on stuff addressed directly to me. How about you?

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16timOthy(802 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

Hey Bible thumpers what's with this ? Boy does this blow a hole in your theroy. And where did God come from ? Too Taboo. Oh we don't question that. Yeah another brainwashed Republican.

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17Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

So timOthy , you feel a kinship with the apes and babboons ?

If indeed there was no God then there would be nothing . No particles, no stars, no planets , but just a vacuum of darkness . Just remember Gods words, " I am the light."

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18redvert(2226 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

In my opinion the creation theory just does not add up. I have a hard time buying the story about why we must pay for our sins. Something about Adam, Eve, a apple and a talking snake!

About this Ark that Noah built. That had to be a big sucker to hold the thousands and thousands of animals. Now I have read that it did not carry all the species that we have on the earth today. I guess the newer species evolved since then.... opps!!!, didn't mean to use that word. Now this ark had to carry all the food needed also. After a year I bet the the outside of that thing looked great with bird crap all over it.

Noah built this without even having a Sawsall! He was good!


Stan quoted "Gods" words, "I am the light" Was this "quote" written into the original bible at the time they were spoken or was it something written many, many years later? Was it something that God "would of said?" Did it fit the discussion? We have all seen how a story whispered in turn from one person to another can have completely different meaning after twenty exchanges.

Now I do not have a problem with anyone being a believer as long as they are not fanatics. If being a believer makes them a better person then that is great. We all want to think that there is more to it than just life here on this earth. When I see these different versions of the bible I tend to think that we are dealing with opinions or what we want to believe and nothing else.

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19pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

We did evolve. And yes...all the way from the fishes. And this from one of those pesky conservatives. Where do we spend 9 months before birth? What are we surrounded by? Whats the ratio of water to salt in that fluid as compared to that big ole ocean. Did you know, as we develope in the womb there is aprox a 3 day span where it appears we have gils that develope into our...na...you wouldnt believe it. No, not apes, but we did evolve. 100 hundred yrs isnt even a drop in the bucket a for as TIME is concerned. Check the average heigth of man as compared to today. If you look it up...WOW aye. Evolution is real. Doesnt mean God didnt allow it to happen. Free will and all. But evolutionis real. To believe and/or deny otherwise...would be a bit concrete.

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20pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

Oh yeah...we are made mostly of...salt water.
Odd a baby can be birthed under water and can swim second one.
and on...and on...

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21pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

Viruses divide...multiply...mutate...evolve rapidly over short periods of time...to survive and thrive...and we also over what we humans think of as a long period of time. Complex would be putting it mildly. We arent even capable of understanding the true meaning of life...But Im glad Ive adapted to my envirnment and work to prosper even when others take what I earn

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22Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

What sets us apart from all other forms of life on this planet is our ability to think . Well, most of us anyhow .

Here are some facts:

Each and everyone of us had no control over how we got here . What we do have control over is what we do with the life that was given us . The Bible is the book of directions on how to live that life . Stray from it's teachings and your life will be a living hell . Stick with the teachings and all obstacles can be overcome .

The mystery of life is no mystery .

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23redvert(2226 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

I guess we all agree to disagree in a civilized discussion. Can't argue with that!

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24TB(1167 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

Apparently somewhere around 36% of Americans believe in both some form of creationism and evolution. I didn't realize they were mutually exclusive.

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25Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

Now for those who claim kinship to the apes perhaps you can answer why apes can't talk but parrots can ?


An ape is just an animal it is plain to see
Some humans think they are related to them but not me

A bird talking is a pleasure to hear
Just because they do doesn't make us genetically near

God is the creator of all life many of us know
Some unfortunately don't think it's so

God had a magnificent plan
An animal is just an animal and man is man

Without knowing what you are
In your thinking you won't get very far

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26pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

Time would not be relavent to a creator. Its relevant to us. Our life cycle/span doesnt regester in space time. Stan desribes free will. Understandig the universe...how it came to be,,,how we came to be gets us closer to understanding what its all about. To think in our millisecond of life we can even pretend to compehend it all is concrete thought.

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27pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago


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28Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago


The question was:

"Now for those who claim kinship to the apes perhaps you can answer why apes can't talk but parrots can ?"

The point was, if they are supposed to be related to us why can't they talk but a parrot can ?

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29cambridge(3925 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

Saying that a parrot can talk implies that they can carry on a conversation. They can't. I had a roommate that had a African Grey parrot and what they can do is mimic sounds. I taught that bird how to say things in four languages (buenos knockers) but it couldn't carry on a conversation. Gorillas can carry on a conversation through sign language.

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30pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

We spend 9 months surrounded in amniotic fluid(aprox the same amnt of sodium content by % as the ocean), which is located in the amniotic sac...We kinda just swim around in it.

Are dolphins hatched? How big is that whale egg anyway?

Do fish have legs? ...No, of course not. But yet there are fish living in the deserts of the Africa that must live for periods of time on land...And must travel across land masses to get to water during droughts...and they do this every year. So, do fish walk? Ive watched film on it...Its wild to say the least.

And yes, we evolved from single cells...to multicellular organisms...ect... out of need to survive. Then as the process cont and spreads over geat time and distance...adaptions and/or mutations occur, and those changes provide a new group to thrive and evolve again...a long cycle. But we did all start somewhere from one organism, yeah. Darwinism.

And as the earth cooled, where did life come from ProA...Are you saying each species came from its own oranism or own branch seperate from each other? If so, where did all of them come from?

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31Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago


"but it couldn't carry on a conversation. Gorillas can carry on a conversation through sign language."

African Greys have been taught to answer questions but that doesn't make them human . So if you think that you have a kinship with the gorillas then perhaps you can explain why they can't talk but parrots can .

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32pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

lol ok ProA...I didnt get the answer to the questions, but it is a complicated question r/t where it all started

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33cambridge(3925 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

I never mentioned any kinship with gorillas in my post.

Parrots can not talk as in, communicate. I lived with one. They can mimic sounds perfectly. If you teach it to say something it will be perfect. If you add an accent or change the tone of your voice and teach it something else it will mimic it perfectly. You can teach it to make a response with a cue. It has no idea what it is saying.

A gorilla can initiate and carry on a conversation through sign language and it knows exactly what it is saying.

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34pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

ProA...sounds like we hold similar beliefs

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35Alexinytown(246 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

The problem you have is not the physical evolution but that of the evolution of the mind and emotions. Physical evolution is a lot easier to explain than the evolution of the mind or emotional being.

No other creature on this planet has the ability of the complex thought processes that humans have.

How exactly did we make the jump from survival to self-actualization and accumulation of wealth? How did we make the jump from the basic need to reproduce to love? Granted reproduction is hardwired into us, but love is something very mutli-dimensional.

Humans have the ability of free will and thinking. Where did that evolve from? And why?

I do not doubt there is some degree of evolution over time, but certain aspects of humans are found ONLY in humans, and that is quite unusual. Many animals have similar characteristics, though they may be varied, but humans largely are of their own class.

We are the only truly free thinkers, with minds capable of doing things above and beyond mating, eating, sleeping, and surviving. How that has happened has to be divine in my opinion. We may have evolved to this, but it had to be guided on some level.

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36here(17 comments)posted 6 years, 7 months ago

Reading about the correlations between America's political and religious beliefs, our genetic illiteracy, and the acceptance of evolution is fascinating. If any one has access to Jon Miller's article "Public Acceptance of Evolution," I recommend checking it out because it provides a nice summary and references for a few interesting sources (I've been unable to find a free link).

Why do so many major world religions officially accept evolution, yet American's are so quick use their spiritual beliefs as a main argument for their unwillingness to understand science?

Why do 62% of Americans believe that humans were 'created by God' and 'did not evolve from earlier forms of life', but only 39% of the same population believes that we did not 'develop from earlier species'?

Why do polls of 32 European countries, America, and Japan show that we have one of the lowest percentages of citizens that accept evolution (second only to Turkey)?

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37AXLE69(181 comments)posted 6 years, 6 months ago

Pro-American should take a field trip to the Creationist Museum where he will get all the "facts" about where humans came from.I`m sure he`ll especially like the Fred Flintstone riding on the back of a dinosaur exhibit.Conservatives love this place.

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38Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years, 6 months ago


If we can teach that gorilla to do calculus then I would be convinced .

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