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We’re helping the enemy



Published: Mon, November 30, 2009 @ 12:00 a.m.

We’re helping the enemy

EDITOR:

I am troubled by a recent article in the paper about a 15-year-old girl from Hubbard who refused to stand for the pledge of allegiance in school. She said it was her “right” to refuse since she is an atheist. The ACLU rushed to defend her.

She also added that she also didn’t believe in the pledge because “gays and lesbians don’t have justice.” What does that mean? How and why are we tolerating this blatant disrespect from our youth? She somehow has been taught to think that she can do whatever she pleases.

If she chose not to recite the pledge of allegiance, that would be one thing. But to refuse to stand in respect for the flag is quite another. We live in a country where our men and women paid with their blood so that our flag still stands. When did we just start accepting outright insolence in our children?

We are just handing over our children to Satan. And we wonder why we need more prisons to house offenders. Does anyone think that a teen like this will grow up and miraculously respect authority of any kind?

Similarly, a 10-year-old boy in Arkansas refused to say the pledge because as he said, the line “liberty and justice for all” does not pertain to gays and lesbians! Lord, help us all!

There may be people who disagree with me and that is fine. It isn’t going to change the truth just because someone thinks it is OK for our youth to act like this. Sadly, the enemy does not have to go far to push his evil agenda when he gets all the help he needs from our kids.

MARIANNE LORDI

Youngstown


Comments

1VINDYAK(1799 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

If we keep this up we will become a society much like the one in China, where there is no Bill of Rights, no Christmas, no Easter, no 4th of July. All holidays will become The Peoples National Holidays organized by dictators for the enjoyment of the masses.

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2aeparish(669 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

All I gotta say is that I'm taking a lifespan development class right now. If my professor and the book are correct in the things they say (which in most cases, they are), then this girl is pretty much just a trainwreck waiting to happen.

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3marianne(66 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Sadly, this teen is a train wreck waiting to happen while we all watch!

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4Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

This Mighty Country was formed by Christians for Christians and with a tolerance of others . Now the others don't want to tolerate us Christians .

This girls has a choice . She has chosen to be doomed ! Her parents and others supporting her choice to be an atheist are indeed handing her over to satan .

We are still one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all . The right choice is the bright choice ! GOD AND COUNTRY ARE WHAT WE HOLD DEAR !

GOD SAVE US FROM THE FOOLS OF THE WORLD WHO MAKE WRONG CHOICES !

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5knucles518(39 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

No we are not helping the enemy. Before you all get in a uproar let me explain. All Americans were born with certain rights. Freedom of Speech. Freedom of Religion. Just to name a few. Now if saying and standing for the pledge goes against everything this girl beleives. Simply put SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DO IT ! !

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6marianne(66 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

knucles, what if she BELIEVES that she has a right to not go to school because she BELIEVES that what they teach goes against what she BELIEVES! Does it make sense to you?. She still should stand as directed even if she didn't recite the pledge because we are taught to respect authority. Obviously, this girl missed that class.

By the way, with the new Hate Crime bill, if you believe that homosexuality is sin and you say it, you are now in danger of being arrested. As Stan says, everyone has free speech rights except Christians! Guess it doesn't matter what we believe to be right!!!

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7northsideperson(365 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

USA's freedom of speech and freedom of belief includes the right to say legal but unpopular statements, and the right to not believe.

My understanding is that at least some of our founding fathers were nominal Christians that tended towards deism in their personal views.

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8KimS(10 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

I think the bigger issue here is that, in the 21st century, there are still people who believe in satan. Unreal.

Northsideperson is correct. This is not a nation founded by Christians. Some of you could definitely use a history lesson.

One more point-just because Christians are the majority in the US does not mean we are a Christian nation. Lots of differing views on religion-and there is room for all of them.

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9AtownParent(562 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Thank you for the voice of reason KimS. I truly am tired of everyone getting in an uproar about this being a Christian nation and that it was founded that way. It is just not factually correct.

Marianne, I believe the Christians have had the freedom of speech for many years. Just because people are now voicing their displeasure with that belief system does not mean you do not have that right any longer. As for the new hate crime bill, do you truly believe that your savior Jesus Christ would call another human being an abomination, a sin, or tell someone they would go to hell for loving another person? If you do then you have completely missed the message of Christianity.

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10Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING !

"This Mighty Country was formed by Christians for Christians and with a tolerance of others . Now the others don't want to tolerate us Christians ."

During days gone by one room school houses and Churches were the center of every community . In the big cities Churches dotted the towns and provided leadership . Today we are witnessing an attack on Christianity that is steadily increasing . Satan is truly gaining posession of souls from the weak minded .

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11VINDYAK(1799 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

To Stan and Kim,

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the original settlers of this country come here because they were being persecuted for their religious beliefs?
Wasn't that some 400 years ago?

My parents escaped to this country because religion was not allowed to be practiced in their home country. That was only 60 years ago.

Christianity is not only a belief. Christianity is a way of life and a path. More poeple should follow that path and we would be a better country again.

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12Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

You are right . The early settlers wanted freedom of religion . They wanted to be able to worship God . Churches and one room school houses were the center of every community .

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13JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

I might argue that freedom FROM religion was the goal in the 1700s. Should also be the goal today.

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14leaveusalone(103 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Marianne, Pledging allegiance has, historically, been a political act, which has its roots in the mediaeval custom of noblemen swearing to serve and support their "liege", the feudal lord who held all the local power. Refusing to say it does not necessarily mean that someone is heading down the road to hell - it can simply mean that someone is reserving their personal right to live independently.

Now, while I personally think this girl is wasting her powder on a non-issue, I do believe, as an American, she has the right to do so.

I would also point out, that certain religious groups, such as many of the Amish, also decline to say the pledge. (or swear on a bible in court). One would be hard pressed to declare these people as either non-Christian or immoral.

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15AtownParent(562 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Stan, you really do need to do some historical research on the founding of this country, its founders, and why people fled England.

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16Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

AtownParent :

People from many countries built this Mighty Country from the early days when Columbus discovered America . The Spanish brought Christianity to America first and eradicated the practice of human sacrifices . It is ironic that today we view abortion as being moral which it isn't .

Shure heavy taxation in England was an issue but so was religion . The Quakers were one example but there were many others who found America a tolerant place to practice religion .

Let's not forget the Amish who still cherish the moral life . There is no abortion issue with them . Christianity still thrives in the hearts of many here in America .

THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING !

"This Mighty Country was formed by Christians for Christians and with a tolerance of others . Now the others don't want to tolerate us Christians ."

During days gone by one room school houses and Churches were the center of every community .

It is you that needs to research our history which is rich in religion and morality .

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17marianne(66 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Religion is not the issue. This girl was not being forced into religion! She was told to stand for the pledge of allegiance. It is not whether or not she believed God should be in the pledge, she was told to stand. Dear Lord, is everyone blinded to the truth? This world is out of control now because we have effectively shunned God from everything! Look around, does anyone think this is now a better place now that everyone's 'rights" are made?
When did we ever have to worry about kids bringing guns to school and shooting everyone?

leaveusalone: the Amish believe that the name of God is sacred and will not swear on his name. That is why they refuse. And that teen is not going to hell because she didn't stand for the pledge, she is going to hell because she had decided that there is no God! She is in for a rude awakening one day.
It is my love for God and all that he has created that has me speak out. If you see your child heading into traffic, will you run out to get the child or simply say that it is the child's choice????You cannot have love for this girl and just pass her off as someone with her own point of view when she is heading for destruction. Whether you believe it or not - it does not change the truth!

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18cambridge(3031 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

marianne....Did you ever stop to think that she simply doesn't want to have to stand for or recite a pledge she doesn't believe to start her school day everyday?

Do you believe she has the right to think and believe differently than you?

Do you believe America is the "home of the free"?

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19AtownParent(562 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

I love how Stan rewrites history to suit his propaganda. You definitely know how to spin information to support your rhetoric.

Marianne - it is your truth, not everyone's truth. Whether we believe or not is the core issue. Her truth is that she does not believe in a supernatural being. Yours is that you do. This is not a case of facts, it is a case of beliefs. You can't through a truth in there like it is a court case.

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20KimS(10 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Well said, AtownParent.

I always thought Christianity taught tolerance. Some Christians here seem to need a remedial lesson not only in history, but also in their own religion.

If this were my child, I would be most proud of her for standing up (or not standing up in this case) for what she believes.

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21pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

I agree with KIM S. The wanna be catholics/christians in here arent following their own alleged beliefs. You guys are far from kind and tolerant people. I read much of what you guys write...and agree with a great deal of your postings. But whan an issue like this comes up, you drive people away who might otherwise be drawn to religon. Your like the anti-religous...arrogent.

Polar opposites of what your religon asks of you. You guys need to look in the mirror.

"eye of a needle"...Your heads are to big to get through it.

The people that dont get into heaven...are the ones that THINK they are getting in.

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22northsideperson(365 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Jesus didn't save his harsh words for unbelievers or "sinners". He saved them for self-righteous religious bigots.

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23pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

As far as the girl goes, she should have stood and not recited the pledge then. She is either troubled and attention seeking, or tried to take a stance with poor decision making.

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24Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

"You guys are far from kind and tolerant people."

You are very observant ! I don't tolerate atheists, pro abortionists or criminals . May God help them all !

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25KimS(10 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Stan, I think perhaps a passage from your own bible is appropriate here:

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mk. 4.24
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
6 ¶ Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

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26Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

I put forth fair warning for them to repent their evil ways before they are judged at the pearly gates .

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27pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Eye of the needle Stan...Eye of the needle

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28pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

I put forth fair warning...your head is too big

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29Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

pit_bull_marley :

With that light mental load that you are carrying you may very well slip through the eye and still be judged at the pearly gates .

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30pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

You make my laugh Stan. Your logo is Hulk Hogan. I do agree with most of your views. I admire your consistancy, but you need to look in the mirror. Follow what you read in that Bible, dont just read it.

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31pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

I wish you well in life Stan. I do.

What about you Stan? Based on your posts, yoou dont. Jesus needs you to bring people to him, not away from him.

You seem bitter. Lots of underlying anger. Perhaps you should stick to something you do know about...politics.

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32Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Bitter ?

Why would I be bitter ? God has blessed me with a multitude of talents and I can hold my own here at The Vindy ! :)

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33leaveusalone(103 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Marianne, You seem to be stressing over this girl's lack of "obedience." You question if she will grow up and respect authority of any kind.

I would kindly suggest that obedience is a trait that is admirable in dogs; less so in people. Respecting authority is something that has to grow out of an individual's reasoned consideration of reality. Respecting authority, out of obedience, is not only foolish; it is morally wrong. (remember Germany, Hitler, and the Nazis? They were the 20th century poster children of obedience to authority).

It sounds to me like this girl is trying out her individual reasoning; and while I think her issue is somewhat childish, her courage is laudable. We need every American to question authority - and to insist on their right to think for themselves. (and accept the consequences of that thought process.)

We also need Americans to learn to distinguish between a "belief" and a "fact". A belief, no matter how powerful, is an idea that cannot be proven. That does not make it wrong, but it renders it unusable for establishing public law. Our laws must deal in the realm of facts - ideas that can be proven.

You are correct that our society has many problems. However, trying to force people to share your beliefs will not solve those problems - it could in fact, debase your belief system.

Kindest regards

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34pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Yeah, I say your bitter. Besides, I assess and treat all personality disorders. With the limited amount of postings available, I would say you have traits of a personality disorder, but not a true disorder. And again, I wish you well you beacon of positivity.

PSSST...hey Stan...Your bitter

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35marianne(66 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

First of all, Kim, you quoted 6 bible verses. I don't believe you understand any of the. The 6th verse you quoted had to do with not casting pearls before swine. That verse directly related to people questioning the truths of Christ as you are doing. Giving the truth to someone who does not know Christ is like throwing a thing of beauty to a pig who would not know the difference. You don't know the difference either and you don't have knowledge of the Scriptures. And about the judge not verses, Jesus himself said you will know a tree by its fruit. A good tree will bear good fruit while a bad tree will bring forth bad fruit. That is a judgement!

leaveusalone: You absoutely amaze me with your words. Are you suggesting that obedience is only for dogs? It is so obvious why this world is growing darkeer with people who think that everyone should just do what they want. Who cares about God or morals or respect - nothing matters to those who conscience has become seared.

northsideperson: Jesus had harsh words not only for the religious leaders who were trying to stop the work he came to do, he ALSO had harsh words for sinners who continued in their sin! He had compassion on sinners who repented. You need to read the Scriptures through!

Atown parent: you are missing the whole point. I don't care if the girl doesn't believe in God. She has to answer to God for that herself. She did not respect authority and stand when she was told to out of respect not only for our flag but what it represents - our freedom bought by the blood of brave men and women. You would be proud of your child doing that? Shame on you!

Cambridge: I believe that America is the home of the free but how did it get that way? By chance? No by the efforts of brave men and women who fought for our country. This girl does not know how to resepect what was done for her and people like you who make excuses are pitiful and the reason that this country is imploding.

It is like explaining the color red to a person born blind!

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36AtownParent(562 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

You made it the religious issue, I was merely providing a counter point to that argument.

I understand that you feel that flag is for all that have lost their lives for this country, some don't see it that same way. They see it as a representation of the government, the same government that caused the recent economic tragedy and all that is wrong with the world.

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37leaveusalone(103 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Marianne, UNQUESTIONING obedience is only for dogs. As I stated previously, any respect that one shows for authority, must come from an individual's reasoned consideration for the facts of reality. Anyone who simply does what they're told, without thinking about it, and questioning whether it is right, is functioning on the level of a dog. (and we don't hold dogs morally responsible for their actions)

Nowhere do I suggest that people can just "do what they want". But morality does not result from obsequiously following a set of rules; respect is not something learned by rote; and I suspect God would be fiercely disappointed if the creatures created in his image and likeness turned out to be a bunch of unquestioning, simpering "yes-men."

We are thinking, questioning, reasoning, entities. Each of us is equipped to pursue, to the best of our abilities, our own path. And, by the way, Jesus was amoung the first to point this out. It was his then radical notion that each person could have an individual relationship with God, that got him in trouble with the authorities of his day. It wasn't his advocating peace and prayer that got him arrested - it was his idea that you could question authority - that you didn't really need them to act as agents between yourself and God and to dictate to you how to live a moral life that got him crucified.

Marianne, whether one believes in God or not, morality is a choice that must be made by each individual. Someone who just does what they're told, and never veers away from the "rules" is not leading a moral life; they are leading an unthinking life. And such a life is both unfufilling, and unworthy of a human being.

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38KimS(10 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Again people-our soldiers fought and died for our right to stand up or NOTstand up.

As for you judgmental Christians-you make me proud to call myself an atheist.

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39candystriper(575 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

... puffed up brats living to protect the lie

... so impressed with each other and the people they know...the brats have it all figured out, extort praise and deny reality...hope they have more emotional structure when the fantasy life is shattered...

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40Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Psssttttt pit_bull_marley :

After doing an in depth study of your personality I have come to a conclusion . You are having a tantrum . This is a classic juvenile personality disorder . You are bitter that I am not bitter .

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41shadowman(67 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

My 9 yr old son does not believe he should have to go to school anymore. He doesn't like getting up early, the teacher yells too much, she gives out way too much homework and it takes away from his play time. I have tried to explain the importance of an education, but this is what he believes. So I guess I should just let him stay home because in his mind these are legitimate excuses, and after all, he does have rights and I should honor them. Right?

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42leaveusalone(103 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

shadowman, as I stated previously, a belief is an idea that can't be proven, and so is not usable for establishing public law. So, no, your son cannot use his BELIEF that he shouldn't have to go to school, (an unprovable idea) against your knowledge of the FACT (a provable idea) that he needs an education.

But I would add one small caveat: while it's common for a 9 year old boy to desire more play time and less class time, it's also important to be sure that he's getting quality class time. If there's any validity to his complaint that the teacher yells all the time, or that there's an excess of homework being assigned (sometimes an indication that the teacher isn't doing their job in the classroom, but relying on the students and their parents to do it all at home) you might want to review the situation. You sound like a concerned parent - so please keep in mind that even at 9, a kid can be sensing that something's not right - even if they lack the vocabulary and experience to express themselves clearly on the subject.

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43cambridge(3031 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Stan the Man Unusual
USEless1/UnAmerican
Marianne
shadowman

I'm guessing that if we added up all the times all of you have started your day by reciting the "Pledge of Allegiance" in the past ten years and added them all together the number would be zero.

I'm also guessing that if we put all of your brains in one head we would have a rattle.

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44webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Those who argue that atheism is this girl's ticket to hell come from a flawed premise that has already been talked about by others here. I want to add that God and religion are where people turn in times of crisis and misery ... such as the present time. Thus, the proliferation of those identifying themselves as 'Christian Nation' dwellers.

God and religion are drugs no less than crack and smack. For one example, witness the eye-rolling and falling backward that eerily resemble one getting a 'rush' after a 'hit '. God and religion are shots of feel-good medicine for the unhappy. Once the money for playthings is rolling in again, the need for the god-high may dissipate.

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45Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

CamBildge :

THE EQUIVALENCY OF YOUR BRAIN IN PLUTONIUM WOULD RESULT IN A READING OF ONE THOUSANDTH OF A REM !

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46shadowman(67 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Ah cambridge you missed my point which doesn't surprise me because you're only concerned with throwing out insults. Funny how people are quick to insult others in here when you don't even know what is being said.

My sarcastic point was that at age 9, my son's only concern is losing his play time. The boy in Arkansas is concerned about gays and lesbians when at age ten is he really old enough to even understand what the terms gays and lesbians mean let alone what he is protesting. This girl is 15. Is she old enough to understand what she is protesting. At what age do children have the legitimate right to protest and stand up for what they believe without suffering any consequences? It has been said that she did this to get kicked out of school. Hopefully that was not her reason for all this and she does truly believe in what she is protesting.
Leaveusalone, I did check out the teacher and she does yell alot, but the work is no different than what the other teachers give, but thank you for your comment as it is a good point.

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47marianne(66 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Cambridge: I guess if you can't attack the argument you attack the person. Sad.

Webad: What are you talking about?!! God and religion are drugs? That sounds like someone who is on drugs. I truly feel sorry for you.

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48webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

marianne,

Save your pity for yourself and your friends who are waiting to get their rewards from the invisible savior who lives in the invisible heaven somewhere in the sky. Read your own advice to cambridge right above your attack on me. You're doing to me what you say he should not do to you. You have identified yourself as.a hypocrite. Shame on you.

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49Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Atheists love to argure about nothing because they believe in nothing until their final minutes on earth . Their words at that point are,"OH LORD WHAT AM I GOING TO DO". Sooner or later everyone will know that yes indeed there is a God .

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50cambridge(3031 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

marianne....It's funny that my pointing out the fact that you and your ilk that post on this subject are idiots upsets you since you believe you speak for God and are in charge of informing people that they will be spending eternity in hell.

I have news for you. You don't speak for God. I do and he told me your full of crap and he's unhappy with your intrusion in other peoples lives and you need to get one of your own.

I'll explain it one more time. This is America. It's a free country which means we are all free to live our lives without morons like you who would tell us to leave the country or we our going to hell if we don't live the same life you do..

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51Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

"I'll explain it one more time. This is America. It's a free country which means we are all free to live our lives without morons like you who would tell us to leave the country or we our going to hell if we don't live the same life you do.."

CamBilge endorses the Godless to do as they please .

Here is a prime example . ..

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/02/c...

Cadaver dogs search previous home of mass murder suspectDecember 2, 2009 2:25 p.m. EST

(CNN) -- Authorities in Cleveland, Ohio, brought in cadaver dogs Wednesday to search the childhood home of a registered sex offender accused in the deaths of 11 women.

"We're just trying to cover all our bases," said Scott Wilson, spokesman for the FBI, which is assisting local detectives in the case.

Anthony Sowell, 50, was arrested in October after authorities serving a search warrant in a rape case discovered six bodies in and around his current home. Subsequent searches turned up five more bodies, all African-American women.

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52cambridge(3031 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Stan the Man Unusual....Your comment is a perfect example. You compare a kid that doesn't want to recite a pledge everyday to a mass murder.

I'm an adult with a mind of my own and able to laugh at you and the other knuckleheads that think they are the moral equivalent of the almighty. You all keep saying that she will have to answer to your God for her actions. So will you.

Organized religion doesn't work for me but I've read the teachings of many religions and they are all basically the same. I don't recall any of them giving permission for anyone to pass judgment on an other persons life in this world or the next.

All you see on this board are a bunch of self righteous hicks claiming that "if you don't follow my politics your a socialist, if you don't follow my religion your going to hell and if your not as self righteous your a mass murder." You show your ignorance and hypocrisy with every comment you make

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53hannaherin(2 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Everybody has the right to their own beliefs. You can not convince everyone to see things your way. You seem to think that your opinion is always right, and it isn't. What about all your lies and all your sins? Especially greed, you seem to be an expert at that. God believes in acceptance. You don't accept people and quite frankly it disgusts me. Nobody wants to be like you, and be laughed at for the way you act and the things you say to people. You consider yourself a christian, but in no way act like it.

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54hannaherin(2 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Was your behavior before you were a born again Christian not an abomination and an effrontery before our Lord? You can't use not being a Christian as an excuse for adultery and drunkenness and greed. We are all instilled with morals! If this is the only thing this girl does wrong her parents have done well. A child needs to find their own voice even if we don't always agree. Ours is not to judge, she may "grow" to be a great Christian. This is where sowing seeds comes in. Think about the seeds you are sowing when all you spew is venomous words at people who don't think just like you.

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55ront(119 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

i don't care if she believes in the devil. what she should think about is showing respect for her country. if she doesn't want to do that, move.

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56Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

hannaherin "

"Think about the seeds you are sowing when all you spew is venomous words at people who don't think just like you."

OK . Lets start a new branch of religion where anything goes . Oh, wait a minutute there already is satanism . We as Christians don't compete with them as they are in a league unto themselves .

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57Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

CamBildge :

"I'm an adult with a mind of my own"

Yes indeed it is your own as no one else would claim it .

"I'll explain it one more time. This is America. It's a free country which means we are all free to live our lives without morons like you who would tell us to leave the country or we our going to hell if we don't live the same life you do.."

Stand your ground and be inclusive and not exclusive !

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58webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Re the assertion made above:

"Atheists love to argue about nothing because they believe in nothing until their final minutes on earth . Their words at that point are,"OH LORD WHAT AM I GOING TO DO". Sooner or later everyone will know that yes indeed there is a God."

At how many deaths of atheists has the claimer been present? Interesting that those atheists would blurt out their final statements right in front of him.

Much of this kind of 'God's-gonna-get-you' script seems to be about fear. Some people are afraid of going off into the darkness of death all alone. They seem to be so fearful of the unknown that they make up a scenario about a wonderful place to where they're headed after death. This would be a comforting thought for the terrified mind.

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59Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

It is the Godless who are destroying our country and not the Christian Churches .

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60webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Churches indoctrinate people beginning in childhood, with stories about ... Jonah and the whale, a once human pillar of salt, the parting of a sea, 'thought' as a reason for condemnation to hell, etc. Mostly they fill children's minds with fear about where they might end up after death.

Later on, some come to appreciate the value of the scientific method. Conflicting educations from religious study and the study of science leave some with this: "I don't believe that the existence of God is possible. Yet, I'm afraid of him." This causes varying levels of anxiety. It is not a peaceful state of mind.

It's disconcerting to read people wholly accepting anything they're told ... apparently, without any questioning whatsoever. If one questions and then concludes due to 'considered' thought that God exists, then that would be a 'reasoned' choice. However, they should not foist their punishing beliefs on others, label others, nor insinuate that anyone is in for a bad deal after death. The existence of a God is simply a mystery. If he exists let's hope he's not a mean guy who condemns souls to a firey hell for all eternity.

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61Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

The scientific mind marvels at the wonders in this world and knows that none of this would be possible without God .

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62epicfail(217 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

"Religious liberty might be supposed to mean that everybody is free to discuss religion. In practice it means that hardly anybody is allowed to mention it."

More and more true on this site.

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63ManOfSteel(16 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

A little bit of context: Congress and President Ike pushed the phrase "under God" during the 1950s, when we were at odds with "godless" communism. There's no room to prove it here on a comments page, but you can rest assured that not one of the icons of the American Revolution would have stood for the copious union of church and state that the theocratic right wingers are importuning for today. And I reiterate what I have said on earlier pages: I am not a "godless liberal", I am a libertarian. What is the sense in forcing American children to repeat mindless mantras (when the Pledge is nothing more than a political football, then that is what it has become), and castigating conscientious teenagers as though they were the "enemy"?

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64Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

This is still a free country. Those that can't stand the influence of the Christian Churches are free to leave at anytime . There is no need to live here feeling oppressed . Oh how the tail wants to wag the dog .

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65ManOfSteel(16 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

"Those that can't stand the influence of the Christian Churches are free to leave at anytime." Conversely, then, foreign governments have the right to torture, maim, and execute Christians (both indigenous and foreign) as they please--- an option that would not bode well with states such as the USof A (and for good reason). Look at what is happening in Switzerland right now (with the minaret ban); even the most liberal society on earth can fall victim to exclusivism (and I'm just waiting for some narrowminded idiot on here to misunderstand my use of the word "liberal"). A good case can be made that patriotic motifs ("under God") can in fact be unconstitutional (the Establishment clause of the 1st Amendment). And by the way, the 1st Amendment predates this Falwellian mantra by over a century.

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66pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

The reason Cathlics and Christians get a bad rap are beacause of thumpers like Stan. But he cant grasp the role of a leader. He leads people as far away from God as he can with silly one liners that repeat...over and over and over again. Funny thing is, I agree Christians are getting the raw end on all this. But its the way a person goes about expessing themselves. You come off as arrogent, pompous, and conceited.

What would Jesus do Stan? Would he be like you?
Was he like you Stan? Last time I checked he was the opposite of you.

Eye of the needle baby. Good luck cause "when yer at da pearly gates"...look in the mirror. If anyone struck a nerve Stan it was I. Them gates dont just let anyone in. You need to go pray for guidance. You need it.

M IV criteria axis II Stan...look it up.

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67pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

PPSSSTTT...HEY STAN...She sould have stood up and offered respect for her country.

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68pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

DSM IV axis II....

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69pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Google top ten mass murderers in history...And number 3 is?

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70epicfail(217 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

saddad,

Apparently you misread what I wrote... Excellent work proving my point though.

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71epicfail(217 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

saddad:

"I support free speach and that means the religious say what they want and i call them morons."

I support free speech as well. Above that, I also support giving people a modicum of respect. Especially online, especially when I am in disagreement and most especially on something as divisive and personal as religion.

My earlier quote from GK Chesterton was in reference to the gutter level of the "dialogue" and how it accomplishes nothing. I wasn't really referring to you... That is til you decided to wallow in the mud and refer to the author as a mental second grader. How does that do anything but strengthen the resolve of people already deeply ingrained with the idea you are nothing but a "typical hateful agnostic / atheist"?

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72AXLE69(181 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

USA1 is always so concerned about the unborn but yet he wants no health reform of a system where hundreds die daily because the insurance monoliths decide whether they live or die.Conservative hypocrisy strikes once again.

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73starofesther(168 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

I will be praying for this young girl...without the Almighty God nothing would exist.

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74Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

pit_bull_marley :

"The reason Cathlics and Christians get a bad rap are beacause of thumpers like Stan."
Cathlics? "CATHOLICS"

The accepted norm is that Catholics are Christians . You seem to be trying to clandestinely inject disdain toward Christianity . The bending of the rules to make the wayward happy is not what Christianity is about .

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75epicfail(217 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

"hatefull agnostic- I love how you are always off by 180 degrees."

Your responses are getting nonsensical. No one even said you were an agnostic. You just don't follow what I'm saying.

I can at least have an intelligible argument with Stanley.

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76medici1519(1 comment)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

hey marianne? isn't there something in the bible that says you shouldn't judge people? how dare you say that this girl is headed for a disastrous future! some "christian" you are!
and i resent the comments about the youth being disrepectful to adults. there are some younger kids out there who are good kids and who are sick and tired of being put down by adults! and you people wonder why they are so disrespectful. we live in a different era and you all just don't understand young people.
ps. America = Free country. while it is disrespectful not to salute the flag, she doesn't have to do it! leave this girl alone and mind your own business! she's 15, it's probably just a phase or a way to get attention!

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77pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

STAN...PPSSSTTT...COME HERE....

I WENT TO A CATHOLIC SCHOOL!

All Im saying is that your "thumping" drives people away and turns them against religion. You just dont handle criticism well. You claim your religous but you dont sound like it. Like a poster before had wrote. Just because you say you are a Christian doesnt mean that you are a TRUE Christian/Catholic...And whats a Baptist Stan? Baptists havent been getting a bad rap...CATHOLICS are however.

Peace be with you my friend

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78Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

PPSSSTTT... pit_bull_marley :

I am the product of a parochial school . I don't tour the bars , do drugs or rob people . I also voice my objections to the genocide of the unborn AKA abortion . So I don't handle criticism well by the subculture supporters ? I'll just have to take a sensitivity 101 course then, right ?

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79pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

No, not 101. Different personalities respond to different interventions. Your hard line tactics dont always work.

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80ront(119 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

if i attended that school and had a family member in the military, i would be highly offended that girl can't at least stand and show respect for our flag and country.

perhaps they should boycott any classes she is in.

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81webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

To epicfail: In your response to saddad ... you wrote:

"I support free speech as well. Above that, I also support giving people a modicum of respect. Especially online, especially when I am in disagreement and most especially on something as divisive and personal as religion."

..........

epicfail,
Sometimes your posts make some sense. But I have to tell you the following --- Insult-feigning (like your 'modicum of respect' remark) is the lowest form of argument. It says, "I have no more juice. So, I'm going to make you feel crummy by coming off as poor-little-ole-me." I hear such waaaaah retorts a lot and they're almost always from women. I will bet that you are a woman. If you're a man it's just as bad.

Women have been trying to raise the equality level of the gender for a very long time. Then you go and make a 'you-hurt-my-feelings-boohoo' statement. Please stop doing that. It doesn't help the cause of women. If you happen to be a man it makes you appear as a milquetoast.

BTW, take a look in the mirror. Your own insult of the "smelly Obama hippies" wasn't exactly a kind remark.

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82epicfail(217 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

My posts don't always make sense to me either!

However, I don't call people morons or make blanket assumptions that Christians could easily fly planes into buildings. That's just asinine. Sarcasm is all good and well but uncreative ad hominem attacks don't do anything but fuel the fundie fire. That was my whole point. The 6,000 year old earth crowd expects some "angry atheist" type to "throw a bunch of numbers" at them and call them stupid. Saddad did just that. In my book and theirs they won that round.

Thats just my opinion.

p.s. The "smelly hippies" remark is based on actual personal experience...

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83webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

epicfail,

Online posting boards are used by all kinds of people. One can never control the words of others at any time or any place. Therefore, it's wise to suck it up and let people be open with their expression. They sometimes show thoughts and opinions via emotion. They do not have the advantage of giving off facial expression clues nor using body language. One has to be able to take the heat. Otherwise, for the emotionally sensitive person there is the get-out-of-the-kitchen option.

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84webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

(Due to errors, please disregard my post just above USA1's)

epicfail,

Online posting boards are used by all kinds of people. One can never control the words of others. Nor should they try. Therefore, it's wise to suck it up and let people be open with their expression. Also, online posters do not have the luxury of being able to send facial clues nor to use body language to indicate the strength of their convictions. Thus, the reader has to be able to take the heat dished out in cyberspace forums. For the easily offended there's always the get-out-of-the-kitchen option.

Even if your smelly hippie comment was from personal experience, as you say it is, I don't see how that makes any difference in the spirit of your remark. I called it to your attention so that you might see the double standard you apply to yourself vs the one you apply to others.

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85candystriper(575 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Free thought is difficult to defend. No one in the US would support censorship. Some strategies are inherently self-defeating. You have to define clearly what you are defending. Free thought is an inherent part of America and why we fight to protect America. Often, examined closely, the only thing most of the sensitive lemmings are fighting to protect is their own ego...

put that on your granite counter top and smoke it...

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86AXLE69(181 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Really Pro Conservaterican,er I mean USA1,you want health reform?I thought conservative head in the sand men like you thought everything was just fine with our system.I have yet to see any plans for health reform from a conservative politician that actually accomplishes reform.Like I wrote before,we have Americans,even conservatives,dying every day in this nation because our system is broken and needs fixed but you would rather worry about the unborn than those that are actually living here on earth.If this was your gal Palin proposing these same reforms as your President,you would be screaming from the rooftop of the home you bought with your union wages.

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87epicfail(217 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

"Online posting boards are used by all kinds of people....For the easily offended there's always the get-out-of-the-kitchen option."

No. Sorry, but there's no reason to not use at least semi-civil language online. I'm not asking for a group hug, just don't call people anything you wouldn't call them to their face. I'm sorry if that interferes with a person's belief they can say whatever they want to whomever they want for their own enjoyment. I know we're online but that's never a reason to suddenly turn subhuman and curse at everyone we disagree with.

Furthermore, as politely worded as your reply is, at it's root, all you're saying is that it's perfectly acceptable to call people morons for their fundie beliefs ...because you think so. All I said was that discussion ends when people stop being civil. No more, no less.

Oh well... :-)

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88pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

The health care reform measure is scary. Go ask your PCP at your next visit

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89paulydel(1308 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

I am a 26yr veteran of the United States Air force and those of us that served this country to protect all of our freedoms pledged our lives for this country. Those of you who are taking advantage of the freedom that you were born with need to stand up or get the hell out of this country if its so bad. The founders of this country were God fearing men who wanted to make sure that we got started in the right direction. Just like prayer in schools are taken out because someone was offended. Well thats to bad you don't want to take a minute to say a prayer sit down and shut up until everyone else is done. This is why this country is headed in the wrong direction and we are becoming failures.

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90cambridge(3031 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

paulydel...."Well thats to bad you don't want to say a prayer sit down and shut up until everyone else is done."

lol, I believe that's what she did and it's what all the fuss is about. Try to keep up.

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91Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

I don't believe for a second that she shut up . That girl went screaming to the ACLU because her feelings were hurt .

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92cambridge(3031 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Stan the Man Unusual.....She went to the ACLU because she was being unlawfully punished for sitting there with her mouth shut. Thank God for the ACLU and the fact that they defend people against those who would otherwise take our rights that are guaranteed in the Constitution by our Bill of Rights. God Bless America.

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93webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

To epicfail
re:
"Furthermore, as politely worded as your reply is, at it's root, all you're saying is that it's perfectly acceptable to call people morons for their fundie beliefs ...because you think so. All I said was that discussion ends when people stop being civil. No more, no less."

epicfail,

Contrary to your claim, discussion does not necessarily end when people use creative language. Indeed, it may jolt us into thinking outside of our mental boxes and inside of realms we have not visited before.

Yes. I do believe, in a forum where heated discussion takes place about controversial topics, that descriptive references to others is all right, but not because 'I think so', as you charge me. The practice is all right because it's the standard in the posting boards communities. That is not my idea. The 'standard in the community' rule is actually in 'business & professional codes' law. Look it up.

How would you suggest board participators show their strong feelings on a subject? By using the caps lock key?

You'd be hard-pressed to find a poster who never uses unflattering language to describe some with whom they highly disagree. You do it. I suggest you not do it if you don't think it's productive for you. Allow others say to what they want.

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94webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

paulydel,

My own beloved father is a combat veteran and he doesn't see it the way you do at all. He is one who 'you' have to thank for 'your' freedom. Neither would he ever invite his fellow citizens to get the hell out of this country like you just did, asshat.

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95webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

pit_bull_marley,

Re:
"The health care reform measure is scary. Go ask your PCP at your next visit"

Quote:
Doctors speak to their patients from a position of authority, and people generally want to maintain a positive relationship with the person in charge of their treatment and medication. There's nothing wrong with doctors providing information on proposed reforms or expressing political opinions, but they should be careful what they say to patients under their care because of the imbalance in the relationship.

-- Arthur Caplan, director of the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania

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96Fattkidd(45 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

This country was not founded on anything moral or god-like but was indeed founded on greed and the genocide of an entire race of people. Stan, you are the most delusional person I've encountered on comment boards in a while. please, take your prostlycizing as shove it where the sun don't shine! Saying we are a 'Christian' nation and acting like one are two different things. We've NEVER acted like a 'Christian' nation. I've yet to even MEET a 'Christian' that acted like or followed in the footsteps of Christ. Give me a break. Remove that log from your eye so you'll see a little more clearly. This nation was founded on brutal savagery and if you bother to read any first hand accounts, diaries, journals, letters, etc of the frontiersmen, pioneers, settlers etc who raped this land we call America in their lust & greed, you might get a flipping clue. Christianity and religion are the tools to keep fools like you subservient to the Anglo-American Empire, nothing more. I applaud this girl and hope more and more of our youth will wake from this long nightmare of subservience to flags, and crosses and all other forms of idolotry and realize that they themselves have ALL the power to make the world into whatever form they want.

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97webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

http://www.samharris.org/

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98Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Fattkidd :

" Stan, you are the most delusional person I've encountered on comment boards in a while. please, take your prostlycizing as shove it where the sun don't shine! "

Well kiddo , I see that you don't tolerate Christians . From one of your past posts I see that you hate Jews also . So what do you suggest that be done with the Jews and the Christians to end their control upon this world ? What form do you desire the world to be in ?

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99Aniwaya(1 comment)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Hey Stan, don't try to play the 'Eridacate ze jews and ze christians' game. Oh, and about your 'morals?'

You already condoned genocide in one of your earlier posts about 'history.'

'The Spanish brought Christianity to America first and eradicated the practice of human sacrifices . It is ironic that today we view abortion as being moral which it isn't'

The 'Christian' government of the US led a genocide against MY people in OUR country. We had camps, re-education centers, forcible relocations, slaughter and rape of women and children, and mass graves.
But that was all for the best, so you know, we could hear gods word and go to 'heaven'. After all, we were all JUST 'Red' heathens, and going to hell anyway.
How very MORAL of you to condone genocide.
And look at the good it did for us now! Entire cultures of people vanished in a matter of decades, but hey, at least we've got the casinos right?

Before you say anything else, I went to war for this COUNTRY. Not for your RELIGION. Even though the 'great' USA completely destoyed my culture, and all we are left with is tourist attractions on little parcels of land and Casinos. I was taught about my culture through oral traditions and books; I couldn't even be raised the way that my ancestors were.

I swore an Oath when I joined the service. To defend the 'Constitution of the United States of America'. Not the Bible of America. And guess what, everyone's equal in the eyes of the Military. They don't force you to say 'God.' My dog-tags say 'NRP' - no religious preferences, because even today, the US government doesn't recognize my peoples beliefs. But I went to war for ALL OF US.

But I served for you, and all of the others on this board. So that you can get all 'righteous' and 'moral.' And to make sure that no one can do to YOU what was done to MY people.
That is very 'moral.'

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100pit_bull_marley(291 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

WEBAD.

Ask your PCP at your next visit. I speak with the MDs as a another health care provider and not as their client. Which means its open communication. But the quote was nice however. You are also using a qoute that refers to the pt/MD relationship as it relates to the pts medical issues, not health care reform. It is scary. And I posted under the wrong topic.

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101Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Aniwaya :

Many here in America have worked to make this a strong nation . Many here are working hard to keep it that way . Life is easier now than it has ever been in the past centuries .

You failed to mention how the tribes of the past killed the men and ran off with the women of the other tribes . How about the Mayans who had human sacrifices and practiced canibalism ?

Today many are intertwined with the genetics of the indignious people of America . Most practice Christianity . A better future is the desire of everyone . Human morality and dignity are still the desire of Christianity . One cannot relive the past and most wouldn't want to .

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102greyhorse(36 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

It's very sad when a child cannot show respect for our fallen men and women who died so she can be free. Shame on the ACLU or anyone who supports that kind of behavior. Sooo horribly disrespectful.

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103cambridge(3031 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

It's very sad when a child can't enjoy the freedoms that our men and women died for. Shame on anyone who would deprive her or anyone else of America's freedoms. Sooo horribly disrespectful.

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104webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Stan,

I don't think you realize that once a human culture (or a species of plant or animal) is wiped out there is no getting it back. It's a crime that the beautiful Native American cultures are lost to the world forever ... because some other civilization thought its way was better.

Given his/her family history, I don't understand why Aniwaya would 'want' help a military wipe out resistors of US occupation. They're from other cultures just like Aniwaya says his/her ancestors were. Just doing a job? That reason seems like it would not compute ... given her background.

Imagine waking up some morning, looking out of your bedroom window, and seeing some foreign army's tanks on your street. I would hate it. I imagine the occupied feel the same way.

The propaganda that streams into our brains daily from consolidated media companies is a terrible thing but professionally done. It seems to most thinking people whom I know that the US is perpetrating yet another land grab masquerading as "Freedom's on the march." It's about the oil, not about "fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here." And saving 'a people' from its own culture is pushy and unnatural. The Muslim people's ways have been their culture FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS. It's the culture that they know. They could not function as Westerners and I don't believe they want to.

The question that kids asked when the towers got hit: "Why do they hate us?" Maybe it's because we've ALWAYS taken what we want, when we want it, from whomever we want it. This time somebody got sick of it again. Now they're watching us destroy our own country from within. Their plan worked after all. We're in the financial toilet. China owns us. The war-profiteering contractors have made off with the tax money paid by the middle class. The banks have stolen from The People. Our infrastructure is falling apart. Families are becoming homeless. This was not happening before "Shock and Awe".

Attacking a country, going to war, and giving billionaires tax cuts all at the same time is INSANE. How can you say, "Life is easier now than it has ever been in the past centuries."? Aren't you suffering? Well, millions of Americans are. We have only ourselves to blame. Listen to what this ex-Marine has to say about who's accountable for our predicament.
|
v
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idCiVK...

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105webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

pit_bull_marley,

Thanks for responding. Like you, I've had a lot of contact with doctors professionally. But, I think that asking doctors their opinions about the reform bill is going to get one a response that's heavily weighted on the side of the doctor's wallet. Things used to be different, but now it's ALL about the money for 95% of them. That's my opinion, informed by so many years of knowing that group all too well.

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106Lyssa(2 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

I am torn of this subject. While i agree it's a person's right but i still in my heart find it a little disrespectful. I know of some people back in my school days that were Jevoh's Witness, who didn't day the pledge. But they also stood just didn't say anything. I guess it's not about standing but honestly my grandfather was a Vet and i can't ever not acknowledge the flag or what the service people do for my country. I don't care really what relgion you practice but i honestly think you should love your country. If you want to honor the flag maybe just be silent when the part comes about one nation under god. You don't want to bielieve in religion or god that's your choice but you don't want to bielieve in the country you live in, your homeland to me that's absurd.

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107greyhorse(36 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

cambridge you are just an idiot lol
I don't think being disrespectful of our deceased veterans is an "American Freedom". It just shows poor judgment and lack of caring and morals.

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108cambridge(3031 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

webad.....youdaman!

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109webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Lyssa wrote:
"You don't want to bielieve in religion or god that's your choice but you don't want to bielieve in the country you live in, your homeland to me that's absurd."

Lyssa,
It's not that people don't believe in their country. Not reciting the pledge is not a reflection on the troops either. It 'is' that many citizens do not blindly go along with every war we fight. My dad, like yours, is a combat veteran. He does not agree with this present war. He did not believe in the Vietnam War.

Not reciting or standing for the pledge is one way of expressing disapproval with a number of occurances. For example, the claiming that our nation is a Christian Nation, the present war, the domestic policies (driving citizens to the poorhouse today) ... all done in the name of The People of the United States of America. It's about freedom of expression. It's one of the gifts our forefathers, 'Vets' of the Revolutionary War, fought for us to enjoy always. It's enshrined in the US Constitution's Bill of Rights. Read it through and through if you have not read it yet.

Our country has a very interesting history at home and interacting throughout the world. All of us would be better off to learn about it from accurate sources ... before the revisionists get to those, too.

Here's a good source:
|
v
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People...

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110Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Well webad :

"Stan,

I don't think you realize that once a human culture (or a species of plant or animal) is wiped out there is no getting it back. It's a crime that the beautiful Native American cultures are lost to the world forever ... because some other civilization thought its way was better."

Yea, ITS ALL GOOD !

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/07/us/...

By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
Published: Thursday, September 7, 2000

The latest evidence sprang from the site of an ancient Anasazi settlement near Mesa Verde in southwestern Colorado, where archaeologists came upon butchered human bones and stone cutting tools stained with human blood. A ceramic cooking pot held residues of human tissues. But the most telling of the evidence was found in human feces: biochemical tests revealed clear traces of digested human muscle protein in the dried coprolite, or fossilized prehistoric feces.
New Data Suggests Some Cannibalism By Ancient Indians

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111TheJurisdiction(16 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

If the word's "under God" were not added, I think this topic would be far less distasteful to the opposition. If the word's "liberty and justice for all" were not used, there would be even less argument against the pledge. I enjoy reading the opinions of both Christians and ordinary people due to the fact that this is an argument of what one believes in. The pledge of allegiance is a movement to show the pride that Americans have. The movement is not meant to be religious or allude to gay and lesbian rights. It is simply a sign of respect. Standing up and putting your hand over your heart does not constitute anything. You can still have faith and respect while sitting down, however, our cultural looks down upon that method since "this is how we've always done it!"

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112webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Stan,

Your cannibalism argument is not relevant to the discussion, The question is whether you, 'Oh Lily-white One of European Descent', ought to pass judgement on another culture ... one that practiced cannibalism as THEIR way of life. Not yours. What do you suppose your ancestors engaged in that long ago? Today, the atrocities that American European descendants are committing at home and around the world end with the same result as cannibalism ... killing people.

Anyway, Stan, you should butt out of the business of other people and their cultures and mind your own. Your fundamental ignorance of just about everything is stunning.

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113Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

webad :

"Stan,

Your cannibalism argument is not relevant to the discussion"

Oh, it isn't ?

YOUR QUOTE:

" It's a crime that the beautiful Native American cultures are lost to the world forever"

FACT !

Yea, ITS ALL GOOD !

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/07/us/new...

By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
Published: Thursday, September 7, 2000

The latest evidence sprang from the site of an ancient Anasazi settlement near Mesa Verde in southwestern Colorado, where archaeologists came upon butchered human bones and stone cutting tools stained with human blood. A ceramic cooking pot held residues of human tissues. But the most telling of the evidence was found in human feces: biochemical tests revealed clear traces of digested human muscle protein in the dried coprolite, or fossilized prehistoric feces.
New Data Suggests Some Cannibalism By Ancient Indians.

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114webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

So what of it, Stan?

What exactly are you suggesting about these ancients and their primitive rituals ... by quoting out of context a mere piece of the article that the words you reference were taken from? According to that article, their cannibalism of 'already dead' bodies began as a way to avoid starvation ... for the same reason the Donner Party cannibalized each others 'dead' bodies while wagon-training across the Rockies in 1846.

Stop quoting others all the time and give some of your own perspectives. Or else, some might come to think of you as a dunce who never birthed an original thought.

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115Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

" It's a crime that the beautiful Native American cultures are lost to the world forever"

Some might come to think of you as a dunce who never birthed any intelligent thought . Now back to the natives , plenty of their culture still exists minus the cannibalism . The Mayans who were Native Indians enjoyed cannibalizing their human sacrifices . So you see my slow one that not all culture is beautiful .

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116AXLE69(181 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Actually Pro-Conservaterican,er I mean USA1,Columbus didn`t discover America in the mistaken context that you are putting forth.He made land fall in the Bahamas Archipelago.Of course considering all the other mis-information that you post on here, I`m not surprised.So let me get this straight, in addition to hating everything and everyone that doesn`t adhere to your 18th century conservative dogma,you also hate American Indians?Ah,ok Kemo Sabe.

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117cambridge(3031 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

I'm going to have to go with USEless1/UnAmerican on this one. If anybody would know about the stone age it would be him.

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118webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

USA1,

You wrote:
"Webat, The Donner Pass Tragedy was cannibalism or starvation, not for ritual or a delicacy."

And that's exactly what I wrote, numbnuts. Read it above or here below.
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I wrote:
"According to that article, their cannibalism of 'already dead' bodies began as a way to avoid starvation ... for the same reason the Donner Party cannibalized each others 'dead' bodies while wagon-training across the Rockies in 1846."

Wake up.

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119cambridge(3031 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

The Donner Pass is in the Sierra Nevada Mountains not the Rockies. I've crossed over it hundreds of times to go skiing.

But you are correct about USEless1 being a numbnuts.

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120Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

They just liked some easy to get protein to go with the maize . Was this called recycling their enemies or really enjoying their friends ?

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121epicfail(217 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

"Was this called recycling their enemies or really enjoying their friends ?"

Some call it transubstantiation.

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122AXLE69(181 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

USA1 ........ Axle, Columbus did see the Florida coastline on one of his voyages to the new world. We don't know if any crew members acutally went ashore.

I'm not expressing hate, just facts. Be realistic; the Indians were in the stone age

Come on USA1/Pro Conservaterican, you`re starting to sound like your girlfriend Palin when she saw Russia from her kitchen.Lol.....I wasn`t living with the Indians in 1492 but I`m sure they were happy as bugs in a rug and didn`t consider themselves an inferior people like you do.I think I understand your anti-Indian feelings.They lived in tribes and everyone collectively contributed to the survival of the tribe.Oh my Lord,they were SOCIALISTS!!!!!!!!!! We better get Glenn Beck on this quick.The survival of AMERICA is at stake.Keep drinking the Kool-Aid USA-Pro.If nothing else you are always good for a hearty laugh!

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123epicfail(217 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Nah, Pro has lost his step. He used to be able to string together some classic hate. Now people are just "socialists" or "baby killers". They USED to be "socialist baby killing nazi union liberal death panel thugs working for the gay agenda to destroy christmas and white jesus".

c'est la vie

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124Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

"They lived in tribes and everyone collectively contributed to the survival of the tribe."

Yep, the Mayans indeed shared those who were slaughtered . The Spaniards eliminated the dirty practice . Could this be called the suppression of the culture ?

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125epicfail(217 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

"Yep, the Mayans indeed shared those who were slaughtered . The Spaniards eliminated the dirty practice"

They also eliminated their literature and books.

But hey! You only really need one book, right?

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126webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

cambridge

Thanks for correcting me about the Donner Party's travel route. wedbad says, "my bad".

..........

stan,

LoL. For once you made a funny that's funny. I always thought you were so cranky because it must be difficult typing, kneeling, and flipping Bible pages all at the same time.

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127Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

webad :

Be assured that I find you highly amusing even though your logic is lacking any substance .

epicfail :

"They also eliminated their literature and books."

A lot of good recipes were wasted for utilizing human protein , right ?

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128Whitey16(4 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

The following is an email that I received. It has both good and bad points to it. After reading the different viewpoints in this blog, I thought it would fit with this discussion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

America, Canada , all Europe ... needs a President like this

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd - Australia
Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.
Quote: 'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians'.

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'. 'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,

'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.'

'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

Maybe if we circulate this, American citizens will find the backbone to start speaking and voicing the same truths.

If you agree, please SEND THIS ON.

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129cambridge(3031 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Australia sounds like a great place as long as your part of the herd. Rupert Murdoch is from Australia and his Fix Noise Network and other media outlets indoctrinate the sheep that gather for their thought and social skills.

Maybe the answer for those in this country that think along these lines is to go and live down under, in more ways than one.

Thank God that America is a country with a tradition of welcome and the sharing of cultures and customs which is what makes it the great country that it is.

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130Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

THE CHRISTIAN VIEWPOINT

Cultural , Political and World Events Through a Biblical World View

Kelly McGinley tells it like it is .

http://www.retakingamerica.com/

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131webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

cambridge,

Now, you da man. There's probably little point in addressing Whitey16. His words seem to indicate that his mind is deeply entrenched in indoctrinated disinformation. Maybe he's only 16 years old and will learn something before he gets drafted and gives up some limbs for his billionaire slave-drivers.

I agree with the first part of your response post above. But unfortunately, our once great country is no longer a golden child. It has been turned into an oligarchy. 'Unregulated' capitalism has led to rampant greed. I speak of the 'unregulated' capitalism that made a comeback during Reagan, continued throughout the Bush Sr & Jr Crime Family years, and has not 'yet' been stopped by our current President nor our current Congress.

Of course the Australian Murdoch's Fox News and the rest of the much-consolidated corporately owned media would have us believe otherwise. To accomplish this, it spews ever increasing amounts of false information daily directly from the idiot box into our already propaganda-soaked & primed minds.

Any reader telling me to get out of the country would be futile. This is my country and I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to keep on working to kick out our corporate masters and restore our beloved nation to one we again can be proud of ... a place that respects human rights and the dignity of every man and woman. In that way, I will be honoring my father's and uncles' sacrifices and honoring my regular but brave citizen brothers and sisters.

For a taste of some 'indepentent' media go here:
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"Democracy Now"
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Kent State TV2, Ch. 2 - 7pm M-F

DirecTV: Link TV, Ch. 375 11-12 p.m. & 6-7 p.m., M-F EST

DISH Network: Link TV Ch. 9410 11-12 p.m. & 6-7 p.m., M-F EST

DISH Network: Free Speech TV, channel 9415 8-9 a.m., 12-1 p.m., 7-8 p.m. & 12-1 a.m., M-F EST

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132webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

You can record it and watch it after football.
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The Long Awaited Documentary Film inspired by Howard Zinn's Book A People's History of the United States

On Sunday, December 13, at 8 PM Eastern and Pacific / 7 PM Central, THE PEOPLE SPEAK -- the long awaited documentary film inspired by Howard Zinn's books A People's History of the United States and, with Anthony Arnove, Voices of a People's History -- will air on the History Channel.

Details at http://www.history.com/peoplespeak

ABOUT THE PEOPLE SPEAK
Using dramatic and musical performances of the letters, diaries and speeches of everyday Americans, the documentary feature film THE PEOPLE SPEAK gives voice to those who spoke up for social change throughout U.S. history, forging a nation from the bottom up with their insistence on equality and justice.

THE PEOPLE SPEAK is produced by Matt Damon, Josh Brolin, Chris Moore, Anthony Arnove, and Howard Zinn, and features dramatic and musical performances by Brolin, Damon, Rosario Dawson, Bob Dylan, Michael Ealy, Lupe Fiasco, Morgan Freeman, Jasmine Guy, John Legend, Darryl "DMC" McDaniels, Sandra Oh, Viggo Mortensen, Bruce Springsteen, Marisa Tomei, Kerry Washington, and many others

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133Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Hey webad . . ..

Barack is da man . The Bush's are retired . The past is history . We are now in the clueless generation . You and your liberal friends are now in the forefront of cutting edge politics .

IT'S ALL GOOD !

Black lawmakers frustrated with Obama

http://www.statesman.com/news/content...

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134webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Earth to USA1dumbtard,

Come out of your coma. Corp media says, "Boo! Look over there, sheeple!"

And as though with a magic wand, you've been sucked down the memoryhole by the corporate distraction media ... right into the ACORN baffle-'em-with-bs ploy.

LoL. Looks like here's still one born every minute.

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135Whitey16(4 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

webad, please go back and read my post. The entire thing except the first 4 lines was an email that was sent to me. It is not my viewpoint, but I thought it would bring more discussion to this blog as it appears that has been the topic here.

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136webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Whitey16,

Thanks for calling my attention to my reading of your post.

Mosques do appear to bear some watching these days. We've been bringing this now necessary circumstance onto our own heads for decades. While I don't believe Muslims generally are a threat, their impressioned religious psyches make mosque attendees primed for influence by extremists ... just as are members of any fundamentalist-type religion in any nation.

National religious identity has shown itself to be the product of captured, imprisoned minds existing behind jail bars of dogma and fairy tale promises of afterlife ecstasy ... the bleating herd mentality, as cambridge mentioned above.

But, who will monitor those doing the monitoring? And then who will monitor them? And on and on. There begins the slippery slope leading to a total loss of privacy for all of The People.

"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."
-- attributed to Benjamin Franklin

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137webad(156 comments)posted 4 years, 10 months ago

Reminder:

Sunday, December 13, at 8 PM Eastern and Pacific / 7 PM Central, THE PEOPLE SPEAK -- documentary film inspired by Howard Zinn's books, 'A People's History of the United States' and 'Voices of a People's History' -- will air on the History Channel.

Details at http://www.history.com/peoplespeak

ABOUT THE PEOPLE SPEAK
Using dramatic and musical performances of the letters, diaries and speeches of everyday Americans, THE PEOPLE SPEAK gives voice to those who spoke up for social change throughout U.S. history, forging a nation from the bottom up with their insistence on equality and justice.

THE PEOPLE SPEAK is produced by Matt Damon, Josh Brolin, Chris Moore, Anthony Arnove, and Howard Zinn, and features dramatic and musical performances by Brolin, Damon, Rosario Dawson, Bob Dylan, Michael Ealy, Lupe Fiasco, Morgan Freeman, Jasmine Guy, John Legend, Darryl "DMC" McDaniels, Sandra Oh, Viggo Mortensen, Bruce Springsteen, Marisa Tomei, Kerry Washington, and many others

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