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City employees free to leave, and they will over time

Published: Sun, June 14, 2009 @ 12:00 a.m.

City employees free to leave, and they will over time

Do not believe the soothing words of public employee union officials who claim that last week’s ruling by the Ohio Supreme Court upholding a state law that gutted residency requirements for municipal employees will not result in an exodus of city employees to the suburbs.

It may not happen immediately because of the depressed real estate market, but it will happen. For a quick reality check, look at the eligibility list for Warren’s new police chief. The two captains and four lieutenants on that list were all hired before the city began enforcing a residency requirement. None lives in the city.

It’s economics: most public employees, especially those on the safety forces, earn more than most city residents. They earn suburban wages; they demand permission to live suburban lives.

Stretching the law

A coalition of General Assembly Democrats who are beholden to public employee unions and some Republicans with a libertarian stripe responded to that demand. They went out of their way to tell city residents that they could not require that the employees they are paying to protect and serve must also be their neighbors.

The common defense of this state intrusion into city governance was that the employees have a right to live wherever they want. The Supreme Court of the United States has clearly ruled that such is not the case. City residents have the right to say who they want to hire; perspective employees have a right to take the job with its residency requirements or to leave it.

State legislators took the broadest possible reading of an article of Ohio’s Constitution that was designed to protect workers against exploitation to overrule the clear intent of city residents to require their employees to live in the city. Five members of the Ohio Supreme Court aided and abetted the dismantling of an important part of home rule.

Cities now face three alternatives: mount a drive for a constitutional amendment (an expense proposition with limited chances for success), watch their employees, especially those at the top scale, become commuters with no more loyalty to the community than a paycheck buys, or marshal municipal voters to throw out those legislators who supported the assault on residency rules and elect representatives who will actually represent them.


1timOthy(802 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Well it has arrived ! I'm against this decision ! Public Servants need to live in their city, village, county,township. and state. Though the pool of people is bigger the need of people is greater. Who knows who's stores used tires for instance. People living in the coumminty, or people driving to their home from work? We know the answer . Those Judges that made the decesion most likely live in the burbs. What do you exspect them to decided ? It's a no Brainer ! I guess this is part of the new World Order. Look out America !

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2joesmoe(48 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

NoBS excellent reply. Keep up the good work.

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3jr99(88 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

It's funny and interesting how this newspaper can bash public employees, especially the safety forces, by saying they make too much money (to quote this wonderful paper: "suburban wages"), but yet they support $10.00 and $20.00 an hour raises public defenders in Mahoning County are getting. Allow me to explain. Public defenders in Mahoning County will go from making $45.00 an hour for work done out of court to $50.00 an hour effective 01/01/10, and from $55 for work done in court to $60.00 and hour, also effective 01/01/10. The previous rates were $40.00 for work done out of court and $50.00 for work done in court. The rates prior to those? $30.00 and $40.00, respectively. In an editorial on 02/06/08, this very insightful paper stated (and I quote),"...the increase in fees is long overdue." Really??!! So let me get this straight: you bash police officers and firefighters for making too much money, and for wanting to live where they want, but you support attorneys who make up to $60.00 an hour defending the criminals who terrorize innocent, law-abiding citizens. I can just imagine the outcry if a police officer made $60.00 an hour. The editorial also points out how much more money the greedy attorneys are costing Mahoning County. In 2007, Mahoning County spent $1.8 million on public defenders; $500,000 more than in 2006. In 2008, $2.6 million. The county's budget for that year? $1.85 million. But again, it's ok for scumbag attorneys to rob the county, but no way should a police officer or fireman have a decent income and live where they choose. How about this: let's have residency requiremants for attorneys. If a snake (I'm sorry, I meant attorney) is on the public defender list in Mahoning County, they should have to live within Mahoning County. If they are on the list in Trumbull or Columbiana counties, they must live in those respective counties. But that would never fly, because the snakes (I'm sorry, I did it again. I mean attorneys) would b***h and cry and stomp around and file lawsuit after lawsuit until they got their way. Or how about this idea: when someone calls 911 because they just got robbed, or someone assaulted them, or their house is on fire, or any other type of emergency where the safety and well-being of someone is at risk, send attorneys. They can catch the criminal, arrest him, and then immediately fight to get them back on the streets. So the next time you decide to puff out your chest and bash the police and fire departments for making a little bit more money than you think is deserved for protecting your ass, include the attorneys who help put those dangerous people back on the streets.

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4Tugboat(759 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

NoBs wrote: "I'm sick of the illogical falsehood that forced residency somehow translates to happier, more productive workers who display more loyalty and efficiency than those who are not forced to live somewhere they don't want to live."

Boardman's Police Chief(Bowers)and Captains all resided outside of Boardman Township and it was considered one of the best PDs in the area and the Vindy didn't complain about where they lived.

Good post, BS!

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5UnionForever(1470 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

FREE AT LAST, FREE AT LAST, FREE AT LAST !!! It's great for people including city employees to live where they want to live. That's called Freedom. It was great to see all the unions join together to support this bill in the legislature and the lawsuit that had to follow against the greedy cities.

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6hellsbells(116 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

It would be refreshing to see the safety forces make a fraction of the comments and energy they have used toward this issue on issues that affect the communities that hired them and that they have sworn to serve.

How about some education for the citizens on gun issues, fire hazards, children's safety, etc.?

No. Instead the emphasis is on GETTING OUT and contempt for the community they asked to draw a paycheck from.

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7VINDYAK(1799 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Where an employee lives has no effect on the job at hand, other than possibly distance from work.
When hiring employees, you want to be able to attract the best and not exclude those who happen to live outside the city.

As in private industry, employees in the valley feel Youngstown is their "metro" home city and feel bound to its health, welfare and prosperity. We all want Youngstown to succeed and want to be proud of saying we are from Youngstown, even though we may live in a 'burb. That is why the posts you read are so passionate. There is a lot of frustration over the loss of employment, depressive housing, growing crime, and failing leaders.

City employees living in the city or out of the city changes nothing. All of them are subjected to supervision and must perform in order to keep their jobs. Allowing employees to live outside of the city actually gives the city more power over the metro area.

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8city_dweller(194 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

I wish I could say there was a sense of "We're all in this together," but I think there are way too many people in the suburbs who want nothing to do with Youngstown. And that goes for suburban government as well. Every effort is made to draw very clear distinctions between municipalities and to vehemently oppose any collaborative development. Which is why, I think, many city residents fear that once employees are "safely" ensconced in other areas, they may be a little more prone to chalking up the city as a lost cause. The animosity between the city and its neighbors is undeniable. The city is somewhere to escape from, never to return. I tell people I live here, and they ask, "WHY?" So is it really that big of a stretch to wonder, if we're not good enough to be your neighbor, why should we believe you'll think we're worth giving a 100% for?

Also, as far as not losing revenue because other people will buy the homes being sold, let me say this: If that were the case, Youngstown would still have a population of 150,000 people. There are and will be more people leaving than moving in, so the homes will be sold to "investors" who will let the property deteriorate or be taken over by drug dealers. Within five years, it will be on the demolition list, and thus cost the city money and further erode the neighborhood.

I know the city has major problems, but how much more demoralizing could it be to know that those people who fight crime, fight fires, process paperwork, handle our water and city government want nothing more than to be able to get out?

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9pak1116(19 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

What's the difference where the employees live - they will still be paying the ridiculously high city income tax just for the privilege of working here. Why isn't there more outrage at the injustice of paying tax to the city and having no say in how the money is spent. Oh thats right, because I'm being protected by the safety forces while I'm working in Youngstown, or so I've been told.

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10hellsbells(116 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Well, NoBS...
I think your post illustrates the "ax to grind" I have with city workers. You want freedom? You are free to get a paycheck from someone else.

My neighborhood, next to Millcreek's Scholl Playground is nothing like your description of " the neighborhood around you deteriorate into filth and crime, and you're trapped there? Your kids have to grow up with gang-bangers and drug dealers right outside the house."

And you know the truth, despite your comments. As for the threat implied in your introduction... it's proof of what I said, and you can add a bullying attitude.

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11JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Some very good posts here, kids, especially from NoBS and jr99 -- my compliments. To further NoBS' point regarding Communist China, "this is not 'Nam, Smokey...there are rules."

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12NachoCheese(163 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Get with the times vindy! Where you live has NOTHING to do with how qualified you are to perform the job duties. The cities that couldn't hold their own based on their MERITS will now have to hold their own - if they make their city attractive, people will stay - if they continue to try to shove a crap sandwich down people's throats, there will be an exodus over time - the outcome rests solely in the hands of city leadership and what they choose to do to solve their problem.

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13hellsbells(116 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

Excuse me, Nacho, but aren't those "merits" largely in the hands of these very employees? Whose offering the "crap sandwich"? They themselves?
#1 concern in the city: safety
#2 ? shopping centers

Positives: good quality water
good sewer systems
good garbage collection and recycling
school choice
sidewalks and playgrounds, including
those run by the park
public transportation
libraries (except on my own side of town where the branch is supposed to close)

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14hellsbells(116 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

With the exception of some downtown administrators, I earn more than city employees. I guess that explains my house in the nice neighborhood which you seem unaware of. That seems odd for someone who should be aware of the streets in the city. But then again, maybe it explains the slow response time, that I had always defended as the police being busy in crime hotspots.

But maybe not. Just a need for a gps.

I'm not jealous. If you really are a police officer or fire fighter, good for you. But I just ask you to try to remember when you were applying for the job. Did it seem like a "crap sandwich" at the time? Were you unaware of the residency requirement?

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15blkpride(186 comments)posted 5 years, 3 months ago

hellsbells, there is a residency requirement. We just don't HANE TO live in the city where we work. IF a city employee lives outside the city he works, you are still going to get the same if not better quality of service. For one, you open up the hiring pool and attrract more qualifide applicants and the list goes on. There is no argument for forcing someone to live in the city besides "I said so!" There are many reasons to live in the city, which I do. I get the opportunity to stop in and see my children and wife when I work unusual hours. Another. I am less than 5 min from work. However, if lets say, my wife was to get a job offer in. let's say, Cleveland, because there are no jobs in this area that deserve her qualifications, we now are able to move somewhere half way. Something that any other person would be able to do.

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16Silence_Dogood(1341 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

I think it was Ross Perot that said we will hear a great sucking sound heading south if he did not get elected.This Mayor want's you to think there is going to be a great sucking sound as City workers head south if they are allowed to live were they want to. Well the winds have not picked up one iota,and they wont either,this is just another example of the vindy carrying the water for Cith Hall.
Jay if you want to keep good workers in this town work on the crime rate,enforce the laws that are on the books.The other MAJOR hurdle is the School System,which City Hall has no control over.The schools in Youngstown have been turning out Thugs and Idiots at a vastly disproportinate rate then the rest of the State,how in Gods name do you stop that trend.
In a nutshell this is Youngstowns dilemma,the residency issue is a red hearing that the Politicians have grabbed a hold of because they do not have the fortitude to take on the REAL PROBLEMS of Youngstown.

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17hellsbells(116 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Give me a break, BS.
I only mentioned my income because of your claim that I was jealous of your paycheck. :-)

What I would like is for you to chuck all the drama and pathos trying to equate your situation with freedom and civil rights.

You always had freedom. But you wanted that paycheck from the city. Period.

The rest of your post is horrifying. For example, your statement that,
"No, really what happens is that the workers keep a database of all citizens, and certain people get priority treatment, while others must wait. "

I don't know how to interpret that statement. You mean the one time in a lifetime that I call police, I am put at the bottom of the list? I hope this doesn't apply to the firestation.

Glad to see you live in the city, blkpride. I agree there are good reasons to do so. (Including incentives to buy houses given by the city that most city residents don't get and aren't aware of.)

But moving halfway to Cleveland? Sorry I can't see that for a member of the safety forces. The best thing you guys can do for yourselves is quit posting before we get any angrier and dedicate ourselves to defeating levies from now on.

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18Justin2204(13 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

As someone actually IN the schools, it amazes me what some "grownups" will say, even when they are commenting on another topic.

Silence Do Good, maybe you should have stayed true to your name. The schools are "turning out Thugs and Idiots"? Ouch. I'm neither. And if some students are, who turned them out? I'd say their families turned them out for the schools to deal with.

If the schools create thugs and idiots, then the police must create crime and the fire department must create arson.

Someone wrote a letter to the editor today complaining about fights at Borts Pool. So I guess pools turn out fighters.

Anyway, talk about red herrings. Kids living in Y-town today have a lot of choices from suburban open enrollment schools (Struthers, Lowellville, Liberty, Austintown, McDonald, Mineral Ridge, Columbiana... there's one for every side of town) to private schools, all with vouchers (Mooney, Ursuline, Yo. Christian, Akiva) to charter schools, even some online that let you work from home, to going to school on the Y.S.U. campus at Youngstown Early College.

If I can think of these in 8th grade, wouldn't you think an adult could too?

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19blkpride(186 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Hells, your argument about freedom and civil rights equates to a white store owner telling a black man to go to a black business.

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20cambridge(3010 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

The last refuge of the inarticulate redneck hick.

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21YSUgrad99(200 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

I have one question for everyone...would you want to live in Youngstown city limits?
I do however understand why you would want your city workers to live in city limits....tax revenue! It also means having people working for the city who have pride in it, plus a stake in its future success. If I worked for the city, but didn't live in it, I wouldn't care if the city burned as long as I was still drawing a paycheck!!!
I would fight this ruling if I were Mayor Williams!

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22hellsbells(116 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

I am relieved to hear you may not be a city employee.
I think it is quite obvious that I never thought for one moment that callers for police were being intentionally ignored. (Thus my failure to catch your sarcasm.)
I can't post anywhere because I find myself saying the same thing. No one has denied "rights" or "freedom" to civil servants. They could choose a new job, and thus a new location at any time. It was always all about their choice.
No one is making them take the jobs, and in fact, there are always plenty of applicants. There are also plenty of jobs in other communities, and other occupations.

BlkPride, you lost me. I live here. You live here. How am I telling you to "shop" somewhere else? You mean I am like the Black businessman telling the Black man to go to a Black business if possible? Well, yeah. I am saying you should.

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23hellsbells(116 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Sorry. Line 4 should read I can't post anymore on this subject.

I have nothing left to say. YSUgrad99 is right. I would live in the city, and I do. I am proud of it and its history. I don't think these employees with their lack of loyalty will ever see eye to eye with the taxpayers who provide them with their living wage by working, as NoBS has said, often at much lower salaries and compensation than city workers.

I guess that is what results in the contempt. The workers wonder, "who would do that?"

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24planforthebest(53 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Often city wages are so low employees can't afford to live in decent neighborhoods in the city they serve. It's not their fault, the wages and policies are set by administrators and board members, many of whom do NOT live within city limits because they received exemptions when they were hired. If it's ok for higher-ups to get exemptions, why should the people who do the actual work be punished? If you had to live on $6 to $12 an hour, where would you live? That's the wage of more than half of the municipal workers in Ohio. If you could get a decent house in a safe neighborhood in the township for $70,000, would you really pay $125,000 to live in a similar house in a similar neighborhood within the city limits? And if your spouse owned a house in Canfield, would you really sell it and move to an innercity neighborhood in Youngstown? I doubt it.

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25Silence_Dogood(1341 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

justin 2204
"Silence Do Good, maybe you should have stayed true to your name. The schools are "turning out Thugs and Idiots"? Ouch. I'm neither. And if some students are, who turned them out? I'd say their families turned them out for the schools to deal with."
You are right , it is the parents that are creating these thugs and idiots.

"If the schools create thugs and idiots, then the police must create crime and the fire department must create arson."
A carefull readind of MY words will show that I never said the Schools created these thugs and idiots.You need to be a little more carefull in your readings
And thank you for the correct spelling on red herring I still have not figured out how to correct my errors once it has been submitted.

"Silence Do Good, maybe you should have stayed true to your name"
This confirms my fears of the Youngstown school system,you have NO CLUE as to the meaning of this name do you.It is something that should have been taught in your American history class.It is a pseudonym used by a man over two hundred years ago so he could remain anonymous but still have his voice heard.I would hope you would look it up and learn a little history .
"If I can think of these in 8th grade, wouldn't you think an adult could too"
It is a sad reality but you might want to learn it now,some parents dont give a darn about thier kids education.This is clearly not the case with you ,you should be thankful for that.

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26copswife(25 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

My husband is a police officer in this city. He is relieved that he finally gets a choice where he can live. We live in a great quiet neighborhood in the city. I love my house and my neighbors. We have alot of other police offivers and attorneys that also live on our street. Unfortunatly our neighborhood lately has been the target of many break ins. My husband loves his job. If we did decide to move it would not mean he would stop loving his work or change the way he protects the city.Our kids have been stuck in the youngstown city school system and that would be one of the reasons we did move. Both of my kids are straight a students, but the enviorment of their school is not the safest any more. So my point is if we do decide to move it would be what is in the best interest of our childrens education. If they now have a choice were they can got to school our city workers should also have a choice where they live. Alot of our teachers do not live in this city. Our principles defitnely do not, so why should they teach in our city schools? Because they are good teachers and love their jobs. As do our city workers but that does not mean they should be forced to live in the city. Every one in entitled to their own opinion, but you have to live in these peoples shoes to really know what your talking about.

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27L0L(660 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

"I do however understand why you would want your city workers to live in city limits....tax revenue!"
YSUgrad99, go back to school, you're an idiot! It ahs already been covered that the city would not, and does not, lose out on tax revenue if someone were to leave. Do you think that they would stop taking taxes out of their paycheck because they moved out? I'm not even gonna continue to humor your obviously uninteligent, uniformed opinion. Second, I know alot of officers that work for two cities. Obviously since they cant live in both cities, one of them they don't. Guess what? They do just as fine of a job in the city that they don't live in as the one they do. Its called pride in your job, pride in what you do and believe in. No residency can replace how you feel about what you're doing and how you feel about it. I've already spent too much time pointing out your "opinion" flaws so please think a little before you flap your gums about something that does not affect you. The same goes for everyone else. If it doesn't affect you, then mind your own business. We do not care what you think in the first place. The job is hard enough as it is already without having to defend a damn residency law on vindy.com that does not affect any of you!

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28Education_Voter(858 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

You seem like a nice person who may be one of my neighbors, so I'll say this as gently as I can.

Teachers and safety forces are not exactly the same. Your husband has requirements other than residency, doesn't he? In order to keep his job, I imagine he must wear a uniform. He probably must carry a weapon. He probably must follow orders of superiors.

I see residency as similar to these, just something that goes with the job. If he looked his employer in the face and promised to live in the city after he was hired, then it is a matter of honor.

You would not like me to say I was "stuck with the city police force", yet look at what you say about my colleagues. School choice is not a proof that you should be able to choose residency. Many of my friends lost their jobs because mothers like you insisted they needed school choice to stay in the city. When students go elsewhere, teachers lose jobs. Are you saying their job loss was for nothing?

There is a requirement for school employees to live in the city. The teachers are an exception because they can be hard to recruit, and because diverse ideas can be desirable in instruction. Still, it would be better for more teachers to live here, and they are encouraged to do so.

There is no getting around this decision as sad for city residents. Surely you understand that. I think you should feel honored to be so valued as a member of your community. When you feel that police officers are not respected, remember that your neighbors valued your presence on the block.

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29L0L(660 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

"Teachers and safety forces are not exactly the same. Your husband has requirements other than residency, doesn't he? In order to keep his job, I imagine he must wear a uniform. He probably must carry a weapon. He probably must follow orders of superiors."
>Umm, you're right. Different job, but same employer. The CITY OF YOUNGSTOWN. Teachers don't have requirements? They don't have to listen to the principal? Superintendant? They don't have to wear a shirt & tie, or business suit?

"I see residency as similar to these, just something that goes with the job"
>Well not anymore so I guess theres no argument huh?

"There is a requirement for school employees to live in the city. The teachers are an exception because they can be hard to recruit, and because diverse ideas can be desirable in instruction"
>Why are teachers an exception? Well now the safety forces are an exception. And you think that its only hard to recruit teachers???? Seriously?? Don't you think you would get more candidates, possibly better qualified, like you point out about the teachers, if there wasn't a residency issue. The argument you just made with teachers goes hand in hand with safety forces.

>To end on a positive note, you're right. Police officers' presence are valued on the block but at their cost. Why can't they have the freedom to choose to live where they wish to just like you do? Don't hold a double standard, that would be hypocracy.

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30YSUgrad99(200 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

LOL, your the idiot here. You come out and attack everyone's opinion without actually knowing their situation or status within Youngstown...how arrogant of you! Yes, believe it or not, tax revenue is affected if city employee's leave the city. You only assumed I was speaking of income tax. Local businesses collect sales tax revenue from anyone who buys something in town. If city employee's all slowly leave town, local businesses will suffer from diminished business. Over time, this impact will be felt by the community as those with disposable income head for Austintown, Boardman, Poland, Canfield and elsewhere to spend their money.
Do us all a favor LOL....don't think, or speak since you have no respect for anyone else's opinions on here!!!

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31copswife(25 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Education- Voter, I in no way think i attacked the teachers in the Youngstown city schools. Like i mentioned, my kids have been taught very well most of the teachers they have had do not live in the city of Youngstown. I was pointing out that even if many of our police officers move that does not mean they would not take pride in their work and do any different of a job that they are doing right now. I do not feel any one should be told where to live. I live in a nice neighborhood and i will probably stay where i am, if we did move it would only be because i do not care for the enviorment my kids are in

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32L0L(660 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

YSU grad, once again YOU do not know what you're talking about. You first assume that people who live in y-town shop there??? I can assure you that there are alot of people that already do their grocery shopping out of town due to the neighborhood the store closest to them is in. Who do you think does the shopping? The officer always at work or the wife? Do you think the wife feels safer going into boardman or poland or y-town. I'm not gonna answer that question for you but I suspect you know the answer and let me assure you that that is what ALREADY goes on.
Lets hit property tax. If an officer moves, and lets assume owns and a home and does not rent, he will continue to pay the property tax until he sells it. once sold someone else will take over paying the property tax! Income tax like you pointed out, thank god you at least knew that, continues to come out of the pay check. The difference between me and you is that you stated "my opinion" like you know and are in the situation and I am not and just giving my two cents. You are the one offering your opinion on someone elses life so I again state to not flap your gums about something that does not affect you or are not a part of.

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33Education_Voter(858 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Is this information from Bertram DeSouza's Sunday article true?

The median household income for city workers is $63,000.

Because I know his next statement to be true:
the median household income for Youngstown residents as a whole is $28,700.

Did you know a teacher must get a Masters Degree now to renew his/her license?
To make $64,000, the teacher would have to be at the top step in the salary schedule AND have a PhD.

Teachers wear whatever they want to wear. Many teachers wear what I would describe as "business casual" in Youngstown, out of respect for the students, who are REQUIRED to dress that way. But teachers are not required to.

Teachers have a different masters degree and license than principals. That masters degree is not subordinate to an administrative license, just different. A school is a collaborative environment. I feel sorry for the principal who tries to give orders.

To get a teaching contract in Ohio, you must have a particular license, which as I said must be renewed with a masters degree. We try to recruit certain categories of licensed teachers because they are hard to come by, at least for the wage we offer. Teachers of certain foreign languages, African American teachers, teachers in some science fields, etc., can work in districts that pay much more. So yeah, they can commute here if needed. Districts can't operate a school acceptable under law without them.

By contrast, when the city is hiring police or firefighters, they turn away many qualified applicants. I know a good employee has traits that are prized, but if we let the employees go, we could fill the jobs.

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34Education_Voter(858 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Sorry, I forgot something important. Teachers are not employed by the City of Youngstown or any other township government. (It's easy to misunderstand this, because of the name Youngstown City Schools, I know.)

Education is administered by the state through school districts. In fact, more than 70% of districts have open enrollment to other townships, including YCS.

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35L0L(660 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

To Educationvoter you stated "We try to recruit certain categories of licensed teachers because they are hard to come by, at least for the wage we offer"
What makes you think qualified officers aren;t hard to come by due to the residency requirement? Also, for youngstown has to deal with it becomes more of an issue. Youngstown has a great group of guys, well ost of them, but a lot of qualified candidates would not dare, and have, passed on taking tests due to having to live there. This shrinks the candidate pool. When safety is a priority I would think that youngstown wouldn't want to skimp. There are an emormous amount of good reasons to do away with residency. Why do you think that it was defeated? The good of it out weighs the bad. I'm not gonna sit here and list the pros. One of the main reasons is that you have to have an understanding for the job and no offense, I don't think you do. It's a world that is hard to understand unless you're directly tied to it.

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36Education_Voter(858 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Ditto for city teachers, okay?

I know that you all feel strongly about this. One problem is that the majority of the city residents oppose it. You end up with two camps. Don't think that teachers haven't heard the same thing -- especially when unlicensed employees at the same workplace must live in the city. (You guys are harsh in comments against the mayor, but he does what he does regarding residency because the voters WANT him to.)

In both cases, you can be more effective when you have the support of the citizens. So, while I understand you are tired just from the basic requirements of your jobs, it helps when you try to become visible as advocates of city issues. (I say the same to teachers.) The baseball league started by the police was a great idea that softened the peoples attitudes.

I also tell the teachers not to appear to whine about their compensation in public. Although they are doing more for less $ compared to the suburbs, residents who have it even worse do not understand that comparison.

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37YSUgrad99(200 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

LOL, I still stand by my original statement...you are and idiot. I know plenty of city workers who spend money in Youngtown restaurants, groceries, assorted local businesses and entertainment venues. If they don't live in Youngstown, they won't spend any money in Youngstown! You also assume I'm not in this demographic...are you a mind reader or something? I doubt it, so don't pretend to know my status within Youngstown! I've seen in your other postings that you've assumed others don't live in Youngstown. Do us all a favor and just stick to the topic, don't try to knock down our opinions by stating we don't know what we're talking about. If you don't want to live in Youngstown, do us all a favor and go somewhere else!

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38L0L(660 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Educationvoter, I feel you. Youngstown teachers definitely have to deal with a lot and put up with a lot. But if I were to have the attitude that the many who oppose the residency law being changed do I would just tell you to go find a job in one of those districts that pay more. But its not that easy huh?
As far as having two camps and the opinion of the citizens when isn't the police department second guessed on everything they do anyway? They do it one way, its not right. They do it another way, they should've done it differently. What people don't realize is the decisions made on the street on split second decisions based on whats going on at the time and whats best for the moment. The decisions ARE ALMOST ALWAYS second guessed. I dont think whether or not the citzens want the police to live in the city matters to the officers. Its their lives, not the citizens.

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39L0L(660 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

YSUgrad, I don't assume anything. I merely stated don't give your two cents about something that you do not know and does not affect you. When you put on a badge and gun you come back and talk to me.

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40YSUgrad99(200 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Wow LOL, you still ASSume I don't live in Youngstown! I actually do have a badge! Still doesn't change my opinion on this. In an ideal world I wish we could live anywhere we want, but if this city loses all its city workers to the burbs, it will continue to deteriorate without good home owners and the money we spend in the community. I'm no different than anyone else, I also may look to leave at some point. My only disatisfaction with living in the city are the schools. That would be my main reason for leaving. Your entitled to your opinion...I'm entitled to mine!

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41Education_Voter(858 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Hoo Boy! See LOL? Who endures more negatives -- teachers or safety workers?

What's more, the safety workers criticize the schools at length in these blogs (yeah-yeah, you don't mean the teachers, just the schools...what does THAT mean?)

But teachers present the positive side of the safety workers to 7,000 + students every year.

Here's my take, recognizing that its probably and outdated attitude: I want to work where it makes a difference. I never even applied to affluent districts. A person goes to a job for the salary, yes. But since you are going to spend a good percentage of your limited time on earth at your job, why not choose one where it matters whether you were there?

Some teachers do envy those jobs where you show up, and whatever you do, your kids are going to advance. (Professional parents will make sure their offspring do, if the kids' own intrinsic motivation to get a good job, and belief that learning is fun don't.) And on top of the glide path you are in...you get paid more!

But I want the struggle. Like officers who know they make a difference.

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42philobeto(85 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Youngstown is a Getto, who the hell wants to live there! People don't care for their property, kids run the streets, schools are a mess, and no decent paying jobs. Not a whole lot to offer young professionals just out of college these days.

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43L0L(660 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

Education. Dont take it as a slant towards teachers. Comments like those are specifically geared towards the environment. Like I stated you guys(girls) put up with a lot. It would probably be better suited if you were referred to as a zookeeper rather than a teacher. So do not take offense to the "school comments" its more of an "environmental" issue. Good luck with your career and making a difference though. I think this topic has reached its maturity based on everyone has stated their opinion and preference and I don't see either side budging. Good luck to all!!

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44YSUgrad99(200 comments)posted 5 years, 2 months ago

LOL, you actually made some sense this time! No one is saying anything negative about the teachers...it is the poor environment that good kids are subjected too. Zookeepers made be a harsh word, but its kinda true!

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