There is no silver lining in the cloud over Youngstown

In an era of declining population, a collapsing economy, rising joblessness, and postponed retirement plans, Youngstown's mayor, city council, and citizens should disabuse themselves of the notion that the police-to-citizen ratio need be maintained at the national average which is about 2 sworn police officers per 1,000 citizens. It certainly hasn't slowed down the shootings.

http://www.policepay.net/vallejo/swor...

Does Youngstown really need 7 council members in this declining population? Do they really need all the make-work jobs the mayor has hired church friends for?

Here's what the writer of this editorial piece should have included, but didn't: Sick leave buyouts came into existance as a way to CONTROL costs. Yes, that's right. If you take away the buyback option, people tend to 'burn off' their accumulated sick time. It's human nature - it happens everywhere. So you can either pay them 100% as they take a sick day off with pay, and, in many/most cases, then pay someone else overtime to cover the person on sick leave, or you can compromise and offer them 50 cents on the dollar in a buyback of unused time. Which is the better option?

If you put a cap on accumulated time, as soon as someone gets near that figure they'll take a day off, so they don't go over it.If they don't carry any time over from year to year, they'll make sure they use it up by the end of the year. That's real life - it's how things work, not just in the public sector, but everywhere.

And as far as Youngstown's crime rate goes, maybe it's time to try something else - what they're doing now isn't working.

Tug, you keep harping on the cops to population ratio. But don't you think some areas require more cops than other areas?

The problem IS the public sector.

The wages and benefits have risen far too high and now the taxpayers simply can't afford it any more.

The cost of each public employee is well over 100,000 per year each when you factor in wages and benefits. The average wage in the public sector is $12 higher than the private sector. (see Vindy article previously) The health care and pensions are far superior to what most people in the private sector have. The time has come to correct this bubble in public sector employment. Either live with layoffs and make the best of a grim situation or take cuts that allow governments to keep the employee levels the same.

Never aspire to raise your level of security in wages and health care. Just cheer for the decline of others.

Hey Cambridge, ask the laid off public workers about job security! Plus, I've aspired to a very good level but I don't think anyone thinks the public sector should be making more than the private sector, especially considering most of them aren't college grads and irreplaceable. Aspire is one thing, holding the taxpayers hostage is quite another.

Well, Mayor Jay Williams could raise the city income tax or property taxes and that wouldn't offend most of his supporters . Luring companies to create jobs in Youngstown is an uphill battle given the crime rate . ITS ALL GOOD !

apollo...You are over paid. You don't deserve to make what you make. If you have health benefits they should be taken away. If you have a pension it should be voided. If you don't have a pension but do have a 401, those funds should be taken away because you made to much money to contribute towards your retirement. See how stupid that sounds?

I'm sure you think it's outrageous for anyone to say something like that about you. How could the way you make a living be anyone's business but your own, right?

Thank you cambridge. Again, when the economy is good and everyone knows that public employees are making what they have always made, nobody cares. When things start to hurt in the private sector it's "off with their heads".

Stan: Of course people would support raising taxes. Only a few of us are paying them. What percentage of the city population is taking our tax money through welfare fraud and endless child birth as opposed to doing the right things and trying to work and pay in to the system that has carried them?

Rockscout....My comment isn't just about public employees. I consistently read posts on this board, "my spouse and I make $12.00 an hour and can barely put food on the table, our kids will never go to collage and we will be working till we die. So everyone else should have to live like me".

It just amazes me the balls on some people to think it's their business how someone else chooses to make a living. I don't mean to single apollo out. I generally agree with apollo's post but there are hordes of people that post that same crap and actually defend some clown making 15 million a year with additional millions in bonuses while they run a company into the ground and ask the employees to take pay cuts and give up benefits. 90% of the posts in that situation would be in favor of the employees taking the hit.

NoBS is correct. This editorial didn't mention how much money was saved over the years by not having to pay for another officer to take the place of the officers who are calling in sick. The fact is, many employees use sick leave like vacation time. That is why employers in the private sector are increasingly going to straight Paid Time Off. Employees calling in sick is not only a scheduling nightmare but also generally incurs OT for the replacement.

I understand part of the author's issue is that the days were paid out at the final base pay, but who knows if this amounted to more money than if the days were used? Especially when only a percentage is paid?

I agree there are many problems with pay scales for public employees, but I just can't see how this is one of them.

Cambridge, I never knew aspiring meant to aspire to be a high school grad and feeding from the public trough. Those jobs were never meant for aspirational purposes. The public sector has gotten out of control. Those jobs are now the best paying with the best benefits around. Wages and benefits that simply will not be supported by ever higher taxes on those of us with college degrees. Boardman using the inheritance tax dollars to fund those over generous wages was idiotic and will come home to roost. Either layoffs will result or wage and benefit cuts will happen. The taxpayers are done funding $100,000 jobs for the barely employable.

Once again, Bill (I mean, apollo), you're wrong. Most public employees have college degrees, and believe it or not, some have masters degrees (just out of curiosity, I wonder how many employees at, let's say, gm Lordstown have college degrees. And by no means am I attacking gm employees, like you do public employees). Not only are you wrong, but you're also a hypocrite. You say the taxpayers are done funding $100,000 jobs "for the barely employable". You're an outspoken supporter of Boardman's police chief, who makes over $100,000 a year. So is he "barely employable", or do you think he's worth what he makes and are in favor of his salary? Let's hear your answer and enlighten us with how much more educated you are than a public employee.

Call me Bill, jr99, I think most of Boardman's overpaid employees know me.

Most public employees have college degrees? Yeah right. Considering the overall population in the valley is degreed at about a 25% or less rate, I find that hard to believe. (and let's not count ITT technical institute, but real college degrees)

But, let's say it's true. (LOL) Does it require a college degree to be a policeman, fireman, or roadie? Should I go to Harvard to become a policeman? The answer of course is no it requires no special education.

My nephew graduated from Case Western Reserve with a degree in business. He makes 48K at a firm in Pittsburgh. I should have told him to forgo the college and make more money at the public trough! He could have aspired to be a truck driver for Boardman and made more money and retired earlier with better health care and pension.

Is Vince retiring this year and sucking nearly 100K from the coffers in accumulated sick and vacation going away bonus?

As for Berarducci, as chief he isn't even the highest paid officer on the force! But, we all know that you guys wanted an insider hired as chief and not the outsider Bear. He altered those SENIORITY schedules a little and made some people mad. Poor babies.

Boardman will soon be bankrupt and then using the routine scare tactics to try and pass another levy. Pretty soon, we'll be taxed into submission.

Apollo spouted this line of nonsense: "Most public employees have college degrees? Yeah right. Considering the overall population in the valley is degreed at about a 25% or less rate, I find that hard to believe."

I'll guarantee out of Boardman's police and fire, there are more than 25% who have a college degree. Much more.

Then apollo blathered: "Does it require a college degree to be a policeman, fireman, or roadie?"

Of course not, but those jobs DO require specialized training. They also have on-the-job training and there are schools and academies where they can take more specialized training.

Further verbal diarrhea: "My nephew graduated from Case Western Reserve with a degree in business. He makes 48K at a firm in Pittsburgh. I should have told him to forgo the college and make more money at the public trough! He could have aspired to be a truck driver for Boardman and made more money and retired earlier with better health care and pension."

Why didn't you tell him to follow in your hallowed footsteps and become a computer nerd - he could have then made a six-digit income, with wonderful perks and bennies, as you (claim to) do?

You keep referring to "Vince" as the highest-paid police officer, yet here you say he makes "near 100K". Then you claim Chief Berarducci isn't the highest paid cop. Er, he makes well over 100K. So I'd have to say you're wrong on that claim.

Oh, and how, exactly, does one "alter SENIORITY schedules"?? You're either senior to someone else or you're not. Unless you're using Clerk Leicht's math, which seems to be somewhat fluid. . . .

>BS said "I'll guarantee out of Boardman's police and fire, >there are more than 25% who have a college degree. >Much more."

What about the roadies and the rest of Boardman's finest? I'll guarantee that less than 1/3 of Boardman's employees are college degreed. I mean real 4 year degrees not 2 year tech degrees and ITT technical institute. I highly doubt that Boardman's police and fire departments have more than 25% with REAL college degrees. You need to prove that claim and I doubt you will or can.

>BS then said "You keep referring to "Vince" as the >highest-paid police officer, yet here you say he makes >"near 100K". Then you claim Chief Berarducci isn't the >highest paid cop. Er, he makes well over 100K. So I'd >have to say you're wrong on that claim."

Take a look at my website.

http://www.boardmanfacts.com/uploads/...

DeLuca made over 122,000 last year, more than Berarducci who made 101,000. So byte me. What I DID SAY was that the average wages and benefits for the entire work force of the township cost us around 100,000 PER EMPLOYEE. For the police it's way more than that. Nearly 125,000 per officer. (wages and benefits)

DeLuca is also supposed to retire this year and that'll cost the township nearly 100,000 as a going away present for unused sick and vacation time. You know, that perk that nobody but the public sector trough has!

My Nephew will eventually make substantially more than me. Once he gets to the same level of experience that I have.

The audit said that Boardman was paying 20,000 per employee more than peer communities. Why? Because they used one time revenues, the inheritance money to inflate the wages and benefits way beyond where they should be.

The township is broke and getting broker. More levies are on the horizon just to keep the already overpaid employees awash in wages and benefits.

Get ready to bend over yet again taxpayers and get ready for the same method of passing it. The fear of crime and fires and the promise of more cops that was broken last time.

I will say that Boardman does seem to benefit from having well paid police, which in turn provides the township with a great police department. Say what you want, slam this if you will. What other areas have two to three officers show up when your house alarm goes off? When you give quality benefits, you get quality people and that is what the safety forces have. Don't think the "threats" of crime are false, if you are so familiar with the area then you know what is happening in North Boardman/Y-town South side. To a person, these people are dedicated to salvaging the township and keeping it a nice, safe place to live.
As for the "real" degrees as you put it. That figure for the police is more like 90%, and the ones that don't have prestigious degrees have done many great things in their lives that make them who they are.

Would that include 2 officers who were forced to resign because of being perverts and another forced to resign because of strange behavior? Is that what we're getting for our 20,000 more per employee than Austintown? Or maybe for our dollars we're getting a dysfunctional board of trustees and a connected secretary? Maybe for our extra dollars we are getting an Accountant who outside accountants have said is using questionable accounting methods? Perhaps we get IT coordinators without the advertised for skill sets? Maybe our extra dollars provides for substations that are barely functioning for 2 1/2 times the going rate for leased space? Maybe we got unfettered development and not enough money for the infrastructure to support that retail development.

To claim that by paying higher wages we somehow get better police and fire than other local communities is a slap in the face of the other communities. Austintowns police are at least as good if not better.

Crime in Boardman is pretty static over the years. No murders almost ever. Few violent crimes. Mostly minor criminal activity, drugs, property crimes, a few burglaries and thefts. An occasional home invasion that they use like candy to get voters to approve another levy. It isn't New Orleans. Ever notice how the home invasion hysteria died down after the November levies passed??? How about the extra cops they promised to hire when the levy passed?

90% with college degrees? Prove it. Post each officer and their degrees. $125,000 per officer? (wages and benefits) Ridiculous. Very few professionals with real degrees even make what BPD makes. The perks are incredible alone. Uniform allowances, 4 hours minimum for court appearances that rarely take more than an hour. Shift differential. Forced manpower requirements so that OT is generated.

It's all in the audit and as usual, the audit recommendations never get implemented in the valley. They're just wasted time and effort.

Well first and foremost, I'm not posting anyone's names or statistics. Second, I never said they are better than Austintown etc. In my opinion Boardman is the standard for compensation, I would love to see ALL officers get paid more, so nice try reading in to that one.

So a couple guys over the years went bad and did something wrong. You are obviously too jaded to appreciate the fact that these incidents weren't covered up. They were dealt with and properly. How educated are the politicians that are constantly caught in scandals?

You obviously have a deep rooted hatred for Boardman and it's employees and I won't bother addressing your comments further. I stand by my statement 100% that what Boardman pays it's officers should be the standard, not the exception. By the way, there are places not too far from here that pay more. I wonder if they have someone like you that hates them?

Lastly, the "candy" that you refer to seems pretty consistant from where I sit. I'd say that a burglary a day, minimum, is enough to make me nervous. Several armed robberies just in the past week. It's only going to get worse.

Maybe you being you can run this November since you are ready to wreak havoc on the horrible township. C'mon, get in there and right the ship instead of flinging and endless load of crap at people.

apolo....Do you spend your time posting your comments from work?

Rokscout, the rest of the force knew about the womanizing of the other officers long before it was uncovered to the public, Why else did they call him Ken Doll? Yet they allowed it to continue until it was too late. Maybe if there had been some intervention, he could have been saved and so too could the BPD from the embarrassment.

Cambridge, no, I do not use corporate equipment or time for posting here.

Look you all put the elected officials in office that passed the benefits packages in the past. If you were so concerned you should have voiced you opinions when the package was passed or enacted. The officers deserve to receive the benefits that they were promised.

Where was the vindicator when the benefits were approved by the city? I didn't hear public outrage then so why now, because you don't want to see anyone get what they have worked for!

You probably don't realize it, Bill, but you just proved how misinformed you are. Deluco (not Deluca; he was a sergeant with mcso) retired about 6 or 7 months ago. It was in one of the local papers (The Boardman News, I believe). And just like NoBS, I have NO idea what you mean by "seniority schedules". Plus, you never answered my original question to you: do you think Boardman's police chief should make $100,000/year?
Much like rokscout, I won't be addressing any more of your comments, either (although I'm sure you'll respond to this and have to get the last word in, just like a child). Your posts are nothing more than dishonest, and many people who visit this website and read the comments know what the truth actually is. But please keep leaving your comments; they're becoming entertaining.

Vincent P. DeLucO who made 122,000 from Boardman township in 2008, may have retired. Sorry I don't read that crap paper the News. What's the circulation 100? Most of Boardman's residents don't read that rag. How much did Vince suck from the township coffers for unused sick and vacation. Ah, never mind, I'll have that shortly. Here are the salaries. Check Vince's out on page 38.

http://www.boardmanfacts.com/uploads/...

Some senior officers were put back on the street is what I mean by what Bear did to tick off those officers. Manpower shortages and goofy 6 cars per shift language in the contract forced that. How's the 4 hours minimum for court appearances working for you? What a sweet OT generator that is.

Is paying the chief 100K worth it? Sure, for someone with 30+ years in LE and responsible for the PD of one of the largest townships in Ohio.

Obviously, you 2 are township employees or close to township employees (Darnell) and don't want this thread to continue on too long and take on a life of its own. Keep as much township overspending under wraps until the next levy is needed to fund those wages and benefits built on inheritance taxes.

The township is approaching critical funds shortages. How much will the next levy be? Pennies a day I'll bet! And fully expect Vindy postings on criminal activity to heat up.

You asked me to respond to the 100K question and then complain when I respond. You know I have to get in the last word! What a bunch of typical valleyites. Ah, glad to see the corruption and misinformation is still the norm here. How's the crooked clearance numbers? Still clearing at 50% even though the rest of the PD's in America clear at 20%. How's that substation working out? I was wrong there too huh?

Hey, are you posting during work?

apollo....Since you think you should take upon yourself to post other's salaries and benefits, how about posting your own.

The slumlords only gain momentum when people flee and give them more devalued properties to buy up. If people stay put and fight to live peacefully in the neighborhoods they moved into, there wouldn't be a problem. But at the first sign of trouble, people run away and act so self-righteous and smug when they can point to the self-fulfilling prophecy they helped create and say, "See, told you the neighborhood was going bad. Glad we got out when we did."

Time was, people thought Boardman would never be touched by the problems facing Youngstown. So much for that idea. now Boardman isn't far enough away, and soonor or later, Poland won't be either. Run, and the problems will follow.

BJ/apollo wrote: ">BS said "I'll guarantee out of Boardman's police and fire, >there are more than 25% who have a college degree. >Much more."

What about the roadies and the rest of Boardman's finest? I'll guarantee that less than 1/3 of Boardman's employees are college degreed. I mean real 4 year degrees not 2 year tech degrees and ITT technical institute. I highly doubt that Boardman's police and fire departments have more than 25% with REAL college degrees. You need to prove that claim and I doubt you will or can."

Gosh, BJ, first you said 25%, now you're saying 33%. I think you learned how to 'use' numbers from your buddy Leicht. And now you want qualifiers on what constitutes a "real" college degree. What's next - you'll only recognize degrees from colleges you personally approve of?

BJ wrote: "My Nephew will eventually make substantially more than me. Once he gets to the same level of experience that I have."

So he'll also eventually make more than those township employees you hate. What's your gripe (other than that you love to gripe)? Should a fresh-out-of-school kid make more than someone who's held a profession for 25 or 30 years?

No NoBS, a kid fresh out of college shouldn't make what a 30 year police veteran makes. But a kid out of college and a good college at that, shouldn't barely be making more than a rookie cop.

Cambridge, I'm not a PUBLIC employee. However, I have many times provided my wages here. Get this through YOUR THICK SKULL, PUBLIC EMPLOYEES WAGES AND BENEFITS ARE PUBLIC INFORMATION, IDIOT.

Can anyone PROVE that the township's employees have college degrees at the percentage claimed? I thought not.

apollo....since I'm an IDIOT I seemed to have missed you posting your wages and benefits. Maybe you could post them one more time for those of us with THICK SKULLS.

Apollo,

Oops:
Apollo,
It could be easily proven, if any of us were low enough to post other peoples information, public or not. If you look at the archived announcement of a hiring in 2002, you can see that all six officers hired have college degrees.
What is the difference if a rookie cop with a college degree or military experience makes a little more than your son? Difference there, that I see, is service and sacrifice. Your son is nice and safe in his profession, not those boys out there on the streets. I'm more angry at kids who go to college and don't serve their country/community etc. in any way. They just drink and party and think they are on top of the world (in a lot of cases). Upon graduation they feel they should make tons of money. Well in your opinion, at least a lot more than those dumb cops who risk their butts each day. So while you sit in your tie at your computer and B**CH about all those cops and firefighters that are willing to sacrifice; ask your self this. What am I risking today? What are the chances of my being hurt or killed today? How many people am I helping today? Then slap your self in the face and SHUT THE F>>> UP!

Commenting foxtrot, I left a small home in Boardman, not to run from the incoming element, but for the fact that I outgrew my home, and needed to move closer to my place of work. Let me say this, I loved my home, and if you want to save your neighborhood, you need to get involved and organize with your neighbors. In my former neighborhood, the average home values were under 80k. Neighbors can combine their resources buy up homes for sale and fix them up if needed and resell to whom they feel would make a respectable neighbor. This avoids the buzzard real-estate agent who could care less who moves in the neighborhood as long as they get their commission. Also, we turned in a neighbor who was dealing crack, and the police told us while under surveillance, they were were brining in ex-felons, and sex offenders to our neighborhood. I even watched someone urinate on the side of my neighbor’s garage. If you want to stop this you have to organize plain and simple.

That is a good plan philobeto. I only wish more people could or would do this! I have been saying for a while now that people need to band together and say ENOUGH! We also need to pressure Youngstown to start enforcing HUD laws and welfare/food stamp fraud. Then again, we can't jail anyone in our full jail.

Rokscout, it IS happening...and I believe it will gain momentum. I live in the Handel's Neighborhood on the upper South Side, a neighborhood that is going to be designated (or already has been) a gateway to the city. My street has a very diverse population, there are blacks, whites, hispanics, young people, old people, families and single people. Everyone takes care of their house. There are regular block watch meetings for the entire neighborhood (which extends from Pinehurst, all streets north of it, and all the way over to Southern Blvd.) The ONE problem house on my street (which was unfortunately right across from our house) was taken care of not too soon after a city councilwoman and her family moved onto the street. They sent a clear message that your low-life CRAP will not be tolerated here. The owner finally evicted those people (who apparently hadn't paid rent or any utilities for several months but I guess were allowed to stay in the house because the owner felt sorry for them) and now there is a nice family living there. However it took several YPD officers and people from the Youngstown Housing Authority to get them out, as they refused to leave. I see NO reason why more neighborhoods can't organize like mine has. I also think too many neighborhoods give up too quickly. I know that it took a few years for the block watch here to really get established.

It's tough squeezing water out of a dry sponge. That's what Youngstown is anymore in a sense...a dried out sponge!
Without new technology and service industry jobs...there will be very little additional income in terms of city income tax. Despite the possibility of new jobs at V&M Star, industrial jobs are not the future!
You must also find a way to provide job training for the poor underclass citizens who live off of public entitlement programs generation after generation. Maybe then they'll actually contribute to property taxes, incomes taxes and sales taxes! It's time this group of Youngstown citizens starts contributing!
Until then, this town will continue to decline.

Exactly YSUgrad, a majority of the students who recieve a college degree usually leave this area because, well, they have to. And those who don't have an education still need to work. I just don't understand why our local government doesn’t pressure big government to bring green jobs to this area first and foremost. We have the land and plenty of unemployed. Listening to business news radio there are foreign manufacturers that want to come to the US to build solar, wind, and other green products. We should be first in line for these opportunities, but some are going south. And positive growth forecast for this industry will be strong for the next ten years. Our local Government leaders should be doing everything they can to entice these companies whether foreign or not. Jobs cure crime.

philobeto.....I agree with everything you have said but if you read posts on this board you will know that many people in the area are not in favor of investing in clean energy. Some even believe oil is a "renewable energy". I think when the government is looking for area's to invest in for clean energy projects they lean towards more progressive parts of the country.

Philobeto-

Green jobs can be a good thing, but as I understand it most of them require a college degree, many positions at the Master's level or higher. How are we going to educate enough people to fill those jobs? This problem isn't limited to Youngstown, it's a problem in the entire country. We are slipping behind other industrialized nations in math and science scores...The government wants green jobs, but it isn't taking any steps to ensure that Americans are prepared to do those jobs. Just look at our public schools!

OldFashionedMama.....Obama's stimulus package is investing 25 million dollars in Mahoning Valley schools. I don't believe you need any collage education to work in the manufacturing or installation of clean energy equipment. Solar panels, wind generated equipment and the like. There would be many blue collar jobs.

Good point, Cambridge. I didn't think of that. The stimulus money has the potential to make great things happen, but that all depends on how it is spent. Will that money raise teacher salaries to a level that will attract highly talented and qualified people? I should have been more specific in my previous post, as I was mainly referring to the inner city schools. Districts like Canfield or Poland don't need that money nearly as much as Youngstown City does.

Some of the comments here about Youngstown spreading to Boardman ( "like a canver" ) are just yesterday's urban myths . Some folks are just so used to decades of disappointment , they have stopped believing progress is possible . You only have to look at the changes Downtown this decade to realise the renewal of Youngstown is a fact . In the same way the Covelli Centre anchored the Downtown renewal , the new Newport Library will anchor the renewal of the districts surrounding Market & Midlothian ; which is a major gateway to the City .

On a local level , renewal is about getting to know the stakeholders in your neighborhood - both owners & residents . Where there is a unified approach by the locals to trash & bad residents , & where owners start of invest again in their property maintenance, blight is being arrested .

The war on blight is being fought on Midlothian Boulevard , not Boardman .

Unfortunately, the Youngstown 2010 plan essentially gives up on places like Oak Hill, Idora, East Side etc. They will just be left to the wolves. The disintegration of those areas can and will spread into Boardman. Crime is already moving out that way if you haven't been paying attention.