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Brother and sister shot Saturday on South Side



Published: Sat, July 11, 2009 @ 11:20 p.m.

YOUNGSTOWN — A brother and sister were shot at the intersection of Lucius Avenue and Rush Boulevard on the city’s South Side about 12:40 p.m. today.

Americka Brown, 19, of East Lucius, was taken to the trauma center at St. Elizabeth Health Center after being shot in the chest and left leg. Police said she was unable to talk because of her wounds.

Her brother, Aaron Wright, 22, also of Lucius, told police he began to run but felt a pain in his legs and then fell. The siblings began to run when at least three suspects appeared and began shooting. Authorities also said that Brown was able to get on the porch of a home on Lucius before she collapsed from her wounds.

Police said they found .45-caliber and 9 mm caliber shell casings at the scene.

Police arrested Charles Thomas, 20, no address available, on a charge of carrying a concealed weapon at the scene. Police said he was carrying a .380-caliber pistol.


Comments

1shadowman(67 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

12:40 Saturday afternoon when kids are outside playing. What happened to the south side? I used to play and swim at Pemberton Park without any fear. My father and grandfather would take me to Pemberton at night to watch the baseball games. Is there a safe place to take your children in Y-town left?

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2TB(1167 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Are 19 and 22 really kids?

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3Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

This was just form of expression that is prevalent in the area . Since it is predominant in the area shouldn't these shootings be declassified as a crime ? Many times they already drop the gun specification anyway .

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4Rokscout(310 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Hope4thevalley:
Where do you think all of the people arrested in Boardman are from? To be fair, not all, but 95%. It's a tidal wave of crime spilling in to Boardman, yet everyone wants to bash the surrounding areas that just want to live normal lives. Time for a big wall, Israel style.

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5Rokscout(310 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Oh I agree, I just mean that it's not Boardman residents themselves for the MOST part. Youngstown is destroying everything around it. As someone who is trying to sell a NICE Youngstown home, I know exactly what you mean. We are praying to get out of it what was paid and it's been completely updated since then. THANKS Y-TOWN terrorists.

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6Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Black communities must stop tolerating crime
A PERSPECTIVE ON THE CULTURE

http://www.qcitymetro.com/news/articl...

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7Rokscout(310 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Stan that is a great link, but here is the problem I see. Why is the educations system always blamed? All these "parents" have to do is stop having so many kids and focus on one or two and keep them in school. All the kids have to do is stay in school. Not start this drug dealing and gang banging crap. We have coddled this behavior too long, making excuses. Take the bad ones and make examples out of them, keep them away from the ones that have a choice. Who cares if you don't have much money, keep your butt in school and make something of your self but don't ask me to be sympathetic when you make choices that destroy your self. WISE UP AMERICA, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

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8Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

I do blame the education system . Right from home where the parents have a duty to instil moral values on their kids to the schools who have a duty to prepare them for the workplace . Most kids leave high school without the ability to fill out an application for employment .

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9TB(1167 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

I'm guessing neither of you live in the immediate communities that you are commenting upon.

It looks easy from the outside. It looks simple.

If you're so ready to assign blame, how about blaming a society that repeatedly sends the message that these communities and their residents are worthless?

Try growing up without a sense of self-worth, regardless of the cause.

It's not about making excuses either, but realizing the true root of the problem. You have a large section of the community that has been historically and intentionally marginalized, and then wonder why their behaviors don't fit what you would define as "normal."

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10Rokscout(310 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Actually I am right in the middle of the plague as it spreads. I have watched families move in to nice houses on my street and destroy them. Knee high grass, pit bulls, unsupervised disrespectful kids, groups of thugs blocking the streets and trying to intimidate people. You are the one guilty of commenting on what you don't know. I used to have sympathy, until I saw what people do with what is given to them. I grew up poor and stuck with it and didn't give up. In my current profession I deal with the same people every day. A lack of self worth causes people to rob and steal and violently attack people? Sell drugs, intimidate people, and destroy neighborhoods? Hand outs are aplenty.....opportunities too. By the way, I love the nice new cars that my neighbors with a lack of self worth seem to be able to afford. No lawn mowers though.

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11itbelinda(22 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

I completely agree with Rokscout. Y-town USED to be a nice place to live. I grew up there, moved away and then tried to come back and live. While I was gone for 4 years the THUGS moved in. We couldn't see trying to raise kids there. They threatened us and attacked our pets every chance they got. We were in the process of trying to fix up the house we purchased and all we got was grief not only from the THUGS but also from the great Police Force (if that's what you want to call them). When we called them they would say, why do you live here anyway? Needless to say we didn't stay long.

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12Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

"If you're so ready to assign blame, how about blaming a society that repeatedly sends the message that these communities and their residents are worthless?"

Well TB:

Perhaps you can't see the forest for the trees . The kids model after their parents and or associates . Freeload, do dope, booze, steal, kill , ect . They are very talented and good at what they do . Too bad that they are destroying the very city that they live in . No one is forcing them on the path that they have chosen nor is anyone keeping them from seeking employment, being drug free and working like the rest of us . It is their choice !

THE BEST WAY TO JOURNEY THROUGH LIFE !
http://www.funwithgod.com/

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13TB(1167 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Actually, it's you who can't see past the trees. When the people around you model that behavior, it makes an impact as you grow up. telling people they have a choice when it operates contrary to what they see and know isn't really a choice.

You'll never understand that Stan because you're on the outside looking in. It's easier to think of them as subhuman than to really understand the causes.

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14shadowman(67 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

TB you missed what I was saying. Years ago I had a safe place to play as a kid. The Pemberton area was packed with young kids. We did not have to worry about being struck by stray bullets being fired at 19 and 22 year olds. Things change and obviously in this situation not for the better. Kids, 5 6 7 8 9 10 . . . need a safe place to play. Each and everyday kids that live in some of these areas run the risk of being gun down by a stray bullet because of a drug deal gone bad or to settle a dispute. We hear of this more and more today. As for young adults that possess guns, they know the risks.

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15SouthSideScanner(12 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Wow, Rocscout I totally agree with two things you have said. One, about living in a nice neighborhood with nice houses only to seem them destroyed. I've seen this happen far too often growing up in Y-town and it's just sad, sad how a street can be so nice when u first move on it and then within a year or two it looks like hell. These THUGS want a nice place to live but when they get it...the mentality is still the same of just ignorance. Two, about people blaming the educational system. Parents need to be held accoutable("it all starts at home") as well. We can also blame the judical system as today it seems like a joke to these young kids. As a parent you want to prevent negative type of behavior before it even gets out of hand and not wait until it "hits the fan" to do something about it. I tried to teach my 9yr old daughter a lesson about stealing because she saw a boy in her class stealing candy off the teachers desk and he was getting away with it because the teacher told the class she doesn't like "taddle tales" so the kids are not telling. She felt if he was getting away with it why couldn't she but she just happen to get caught by the teacher. So i took her down to JJC just to talk to someone about the concequences of stealing. They take her in the back by herself to talk just to her. So, she comes back out crying and then they ask us both to come and talk. Im in this persons office and come to find out they made it seem like i was the problem....asking her questions that were so irrelevent to the purpose of her being there. Asking, was i on drugs, do i drink or smoke, do i ever get drunk??? Im like WT f is this? Bottom line...it's like they underminded me in front of her while im trying to teach her a lesson.

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16Rokscout(310 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Well of course they targeted you. You were trying to teach your child consequences. This is so out of the ordinary for them to see, they were shocked!
I think T.B. confirmed what Stan has been saying all along. It's the culture and we have to live with it and embrace it as it destroys. Despite everything we do to try to help. Times have changed but people don't I guess. I for one am sick and tired of living under siege.

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17TB(1167 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

"As for young adults that possess guns, they know the risks."

That's the thing...they don't. The value for human life that you and I have is irrelevant to someone who grows up without being valued. Why do you think entities like the Taliban recruit kids who are 12/13? Why do you think African warlords also do this? Developmentally, kids of this age don't always understand the risks...even good kids.

I'm not saying to embrace anything as it destroys. The point is you have to understand the cause of something before you can address it. Simply advocating for more treatment of symptoms (stiffer penalties, earlier curfews, etc.) doesn't get to the root of the problem.

The only thing that will work is true outreach. Until our citizens decide that every life has value equal to their own, this kind of ting is bound to occur.

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18queenbee(5 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

And when you live in a city where the mayor makes comments like "people like that deserve to die"" when four people are murdered, and ypd half do their job how it needs to be done without profiling.

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19Rokscout(310 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

What else are we supposed to do TB? Money is pumped in to schools, programs, and other attempts to help change the "root of the problem". Time and again we are slapped in the face with, you don't understand, it's all we know.

"If we always do what we have always done, then we will always get what we have always had". Sound familiar?

If you really want to get to the root of the problem then we should stop allowing reproduction unless you prove you can have kids. It may be outrageous, but, in this day and age and especially in this environment there is no reason for a single woman with no job to have three or four kids. This is why there are droves of teenage thugs running around the streets causing trouble and committing violent crimes.

What then is the true solution in your eyes?

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20Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Well TB, I can see the forest and I don't see the need to join them in their doped, drunken, stealing, out of control frenzy . They choose that path and have no one to blame but themselves .

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21greyhorse(36 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

I agree with Stan. No matter what environment you are raised in, you always have a CHOICE. It's just easier for some to wallow in mud than to work their way up out of it.

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22henryviii1509(274 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Rokscout, I have been saying for years that the root of alot of our problems begin with subsidised childbirth.

When it is no longer profitable, or when the black community decides to stop trying to "out-reproduce" the white community to gain a majority, this problem will begin to correct itself.

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23TB(1167 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

On a recent visit to the Holocaust museum in DC, I noticed a whole section on how the Nazis sterilized entire groups of people they deemed "undesirable" or "abnormal." It appears that a few of you would have fit in well with that regime.

While choice is a factor to examine, it misses the point. When people are placed into situations where they have no real choice, (which people in poverty, etc. are,) then expecting them to make the choices of a different group is absurd. To us it seems like it should be an easy decision. However, we were not raised in that environment. For us to expect people who essentially live in a different country to make the same decisions we do is unrealistic.

There are "droves" of people running around doing whatever you're accusing them of because there is not really any other viable option. If you look at what happened in Iraq, when the US Army pulled Saddam out and chaos reigned, ordinary people began joining sectarian militias and committing unspeakable acts of violence in the name of safety for themselves and their communities. In Afghanistan, the army found out that farmers would continue to grow opium for the Taliban because that was the only way for them to make money. People will usually make the right choice if they have the opportunity.

Studies show that people have a MUCH greater chance of falling down the socioeconomic scale than of rising on it. The old "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" horatio alger/andrew carnegie ideal is simply American mythology.

The solution, again, is to look at the real problem. In our country, we have labeled a substantial proportion of our population essentially as subhuman, or at the very least as irrelevant. This applies for poor people in the country as much as it does for the inner city. (Examine the meth explosion in the central mid-west.) If you don't recognize the cause, then you can't even attempt a solution. If we can give these people a sense of self-worth and value, and show them that they count in this society, then things will change.

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24Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Well TB you are so right about a class of people being kept where their chances of escape are being minimized . The main factor in the equation is education or lack thereof . To an educated person the sky is the limit . To the socioeconomically oppressed person the sky is also the limit but with a different atmosphere . Their taking advantage of opportunities is evidenced by welfare and food stamp fraud along with other opportunistic crimes . How about the shooting of the KFC Manager not so long ago and robbing him of $300 . His medical expenses exceeded that in the first hour . Perhaps he should be charged for enticing them by carrying money to deposit ? They chose to do this on their own volition . The choice could have been to seek jobs and earn money . The welfare system taught them that they didn't have to . Criminal activity would pick up the slack between checks .

The criminal justice system is a form of education also . Will they seek a new path on their release ? The statistics of that happening are not in their favaor .

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25TB(1167 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

The main factor is lack of opportunity. Education ties into that, but as many college grads are finding out, that just doesn't hold true any more.

You like to lump people of a low economic class in with criminals. It's an extreme generalization and shows what you are really trying to do.

The welfare system does not create this mess. It may have a hand in perpetuating it, but you obviously wouldn't like to look past that. It's easier to continue to hold on to your scapegoats and generalizations than to actually look at root causes.

If you look at people on welfare, they are essentially pacified at the least cost possible. The system is essentially set up to keep people from becoming violent, if you really get to the heart of the matter. Perhaps the allure of welfare, which you allude to, isn't quite as strong as you'd make it since you are fond of discussing the violence in Youngstown on these boards. If welfare truly were the panacea for "lazy" people, then the violence wouldn't exist.

Also, your statement that the sky is the limit to a socioeconomic oppressed is outright fallacy. The statistics, since you seem to want to use them, don't bear this out. It's not even close.

The American dream is exactly that for the majority of Americans...a dream.

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26Viewpoint(89 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

A farmer once had a corn farm and decided to use some of the land to raise pigs. The pigs were always in the cornfield eating his crop, so to save the damage to the crop, the farmer cleared an area in the middle of the cornfield to keep the pigs. He would feed them bushels of shelled corn every day and to make them fatter, he spread molasses on the corn. After a few years of doing this the farmer died, and the pigs starved to death with the fields of corn surrounding them.

We have done the same thing with social welfare programs, we have attempted to keep the drones of society quiet by feeding them from the public financial trough. After enough generations of this, the drones no longer can even see the "cornfield" that is all about them, and they have lost the ability to think of self sufficiency and without aide, they too shall perish. Perhaps we must wean the recipients off the public teat and teach them how to stand alone in this world, by doing honest labor to earn their feed for the day.

This is not a racial problem and should not be labeled as such. This is a problem of dependancy that has become a way of life to far too many people. There are many ways for the disadvantaged to free themselves from this dependancy life style, but all of them involve hard work. Low wages are paid to people of little talent, aquire talent and wage increases ultimately follow. Look at any of the neighborhoods in this valley that are the homes of the disadvantaged. Almost everyone of them needs to be painted, windows and doors need to be repaired, lawns need to be mowed weekly, litter needs to be collected, little children need to be babysat so the parent can go to work. It has to start somewhere, and it has to be done by self initiative. Crying about the "unjust" system of economics is a self serving cop out from the reality of life. If a person wants to be successful only that person can make it happen. It means working for it!

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27Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

TB:

"You like to lump people of a low economic class in with criminals."

I don't lump poor people in with criminals . I expose the criminals and their nature . If that criminal came from a poor family then I shouldn't be critical ? I don't feel that their roots should gain them favor or be held against them . At issue are those who resort to crime . If they are on the public dole and resort to crime then we are promoting criminal enterprise . This I have an issue with .

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28queenbee(5 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

What gives a person a right to decide whether or not someone should or should not havechildren or call people low lifes? What is that sick thinkng based on bigotry? lack of compassion? It is sad that there are sick people out there, people who do bad things, but to pass judgement on a whole group of people based on lack of knowledge and or ignorance is not right.

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29copswife(25 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

I will say this, Welfare should only be for people who are working as hard as they can, but still are not making it. That is not the case here. More then enough times i have been in a grocery store and have had a women or young women in front of me with a buggy over loaded of grocerys and more then two children with them and they go to pay and they pull out their food stamp card. Yet, The mother has her nails done, hair done, nice clothing, talking on a black berry phone, while her children are visiably dirty, not dressed like her and then they proceed to go out and get into a brand new suv. I se this all the time and i can not stand it. While my husband and i both work and some times still are living day to day financially. While others that are not working are able to live better then us. I believe in giving help when help is needed, i do not believe in giving to people that take advantage of our system that our tax dollers pay for. I am not saying everyone that is on welfare does this, but i have seen plenty of people on a day to day basis that do. Somthing is not right and needs to be done.I also believe in what you do is your choice. It is not all in how you grew up. Yes when your a child you can not help the way you live or dress, but there is a time when you grow up, have common sense, and know right from wrong. So i do not like to hear people whine that it is all they know, bull. Your an adult, you make your own choices, so deal with it.

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30Rokscout(310 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Really, lack of knowledge, ignorance? All these people on welfare and living in government housing, popping out kids with no consequence. A lot of them have three, four, and five kids. You tell me what the odds of any of those kids growing up to do anything but commit crime or continue the same cycle? Sixteen year old daughters of mothers on welfare having kids, starting the process early.

Constantly I read comments about retirees getting too much money, cops that get paid too much etc. Yet I can look around my neighborhood and see people with no jobs, having as many kids as they want and increasing the bill we have to foot. No consequences for them to face. We get fed up and say something and you INSTANTLY throw the race card. Sure, we are certainly talking about a group of people, but not one of us has limited it to a race. Thieves come in all colors and I don't care which ones they are, as long as they are dealt with.

What you don't understand is that we aren't talking about criminals that come from a low income/government aid background. We are saying that for someone to be sucking off of the taxpayer dollars and constantly having more kids and increasing the burden is criminal.
YOU are the enabler and WE are tired of it.

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31henryviii1509(274 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

And then comes Obama.....

What now bleeding hearts? The annointed one says that education is key and that everyone controls their own destiny.

The NAACP gave him a standing ovation!

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32Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

"The annointed one says that education is key and that everyone controls their own destiny."

Is nothing in liberalism sacred any more ?

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33TB(1167 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Compassion is alive and well in the Youngstown area. You all must be pillars of the community.

Helping the poor is not liberalism. It has a history that dates back millenia.

It easy to cry that these people are lazy and unmotivated when you are a member of a class that has been privileged. Some of you are so immersed in it that you are unable to see things from outside.

The sad thing is that you don't want to see things any other way. You are so convinced you are right based on your narrow-mindedness and personal experience.

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34Rokscout(310 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

My narrow mindedness has allowed me to crack some history books. Nations, throughout the millenia, have been brought down by the same things we are doing. Free handouts to all, creating a helpless majority awash with crime and illegal immigration. Relaxing discipline and standards in our society. Not forcing them to choose a path but to ride down the middle, all the while taking from the hard working people and victimizing everyone around them. Heck, if it brought down the Roman empire, it can do it here.

You are right, my priveleged life has blinded me. My single mother, working my whole youth for min. wage but NEVER accepting a hand out is very priveleged. I looked at her example and only learned one thing. Work is the answer, but what kind of work? So I turned 18 and hit the ground running. Thank God my mother never told me that due to history I was owed something and that it is okay to steal and lie and do bad things because I am owed.

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35TB(1167 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Which nations then? I'd be interested in reading about them. I don't know that your characterization of the fall of the Roman Empire is entirely accurate.

You have been on the receiving end of privilege that you don't entirely understand. If you're such a student of history, then examining American history would allow you to understand that and to see the benefits you have received that others in our society have not been as fortunate to receive.

You are coming at the issue that these people (however you want to generalize them into groups) are lazy and inferior and that causes their misfortune. Were this true, it would be a relatively easy problem to fix. Poor people and people who commit crime are not simply dumb and lazy. If you'd like to continue to paint them as such, then you are simply mistaken.

I'll repost something from above that you seemed to miss:
"The welfare system does not create this mess. It may have a hand in perpetuating it, but you obviously wouldn't like to look past that. It's easier to continue to hold on to your scapegoats and generalizations than to actually look at root causes.

If you look at people on welfare, they are essentially pacified at the least cost possible. The system is essentially set up to keep people from becoming violent, if you really get to the heart of the matter. Perhaps the allure of welfare, which you allude to, isn't quite as strong as you'd make it since you are fond of discussing the violence in Youngstown on these boards. If welfare truly were the panacea for "lazy" people, then the violence wouldn't exist.

Also, your statement that the sky is the limit to a socioeconomic oppressed is outright fallacy. The statistics, since you seem to want to use them, don't bear this out. It's not even close."

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36Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

TB:

"It easy to cry that these people are lazy and unmotivated when you are a member of a class that has been privileged. "

Yep yer right ! I have had the privledge to work but then so does everbody . Even the Mexicans come here for jobs because they are available . Oh my, I just realized that I am now in the realm of political incorrectness ! Let's give the crackheads more money so that they don't have to steal to support that crack habit ! A wasted crackhead is terrible at a job but good at stealing !

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37MzVirgoLuv(157 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Stan:
God bless the retarded, which you must be.....
I guess you have to abuse prescription drugs to be good at your job....Rush, and so many others. Look, to say that everybody has the privilege to work is just BS. Try telling that to my husband whose been looking for a job for a year now with now luck.....I have been fortunate because I have had the same job (through a temp service mind you) for quite some time....Not everyone has the same opportunities....you really need to know that. It is a fact that the color of your skin can be a misfortune, the lack of contacts can be a misfortune, you age can be a misfortune....If you haven't lived it, don't comment on it. Yes, racial equality is getting a LITTLE better, but it still has a long way to go....even the car you drive can be a factor in if you get that job or not because the company doesn't want a hoopty in there parking lot messing up the image of the company. You don't know this because you haven't lived it. There are still jobs that make women not want to work there because the of sexist behaviors of the men, (uh um, GM). These are not excuses, these are realities....yes, it's real and if you have never experienced it, then don't comment on it. You won't see me commenting on stuff I have no idea about and only an opinion....And to let you know, it isn't the crackheads at the jobs that are the thieves....It's the CEO's, presidents, owners, managers...that are in debt from paying off gambling habits, mistresses, bad deals and so on.....Do your homework and get back with us....Most crackheads that work, don't have access to money or products, they just go to work so that they can support their habits....Did a crackhead bring down Enron, did a crackhead bring down the nation (maybe Bush was on drugs)? No, it was the high ups, not the getting high's....

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38copswife(25 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

FoxTrot, I agree. Get rid of the welfare system. Then just maybe people would have no system to abuse and they can go get a job and then they would not have time to be out on the streets. Instead of sitting back collecting welfare, some trading their welfare cards for drugs and some getting their cards and not worrying about needing to provide food, they go and buy drugs, get their nails done, hair done, buy new cars. I GREW UP IN A MIDDLE CLASS FAMILY MY PARENTS ALWAYS WORKED, NEVER RELIED ON WELFARE AND WE GOT BUY. wE DID NOT HAVE THE BEST OF THINGS BUT WE GOT BUY. aT 16 I GOT A JOB AND HAVE ALWAYS WORKED..... I am proud of the life my husband and i are able to give to our children, they do not go without. but we are teaching them if you want to have things you have to go to work, if you want a good education you must do your best in school. Maybe some of these people were not tought that at a younger age, but they are now grown ups and they should have enough common sense to know right from wrong and what needs to be done to get buy. Alot of them choose the life they live and i have no sympathy for them.

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39TB(1167 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Your generalizations show your inability to see reality, and are the hallmarks of bigotry and prejudice. I hope people don't judge ME because of the remarks you white people (my assumption here) are making.

While I admit there are people that scam the welfare system, there are plenty of scammers NOT on welfare.

For us tax payers, I've seen estimates that 1 in 5 people knowingly cheat on their taxes. Furthermore, the IRS estimates that 17% of people break tax rules knowingly on their returns. Let's generalize that to the posters on this page now. I guess out of (about) 20 posters, four of you are complete liars. I can probably pick which four.

Forbes reports that rich people cheat more on their taxes. http://www.forbes.com/2008/10/21/taxe...
This is MUCH more damaging in terms of money lost than some welfare fraud. And very damaging to those of you who consider poor people to be lazy and scamming the system.

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40Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

MzVirgoLuv:

"Stan:
God bless the retarded"

Not in my realm but I now see why you are so blessed . I don't do prescription pills, booze, street drugs or smoke . Which did you not quit in time or do you still indulge ?

"Look, to say that everybody has the privilege to work is just BS. Try telling that to my husband whose been looking for a job for a year now with now luck....."

So then you must be living with TB ? My condolences if you are . I can see why both of you are so bitter .

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41TB(1167 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Pot-kettle-black

What have I said above that's bitter? I haven't condemned anyone above.

Honestly Stan, that's some serious self-projection there. Do me a favor...go back and read your last 100 comments on your profile. Try to read them objectively and then see if your comment still stands.

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42Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

TB:

"What have I said above that's bitter? I haven't condemned anyone above"

You have condemned me for being privileged. They have the save privilege to work as I do.

"It easy to cry that these people are lazy and unmotivated when you are a member of a class that has been privileged. "

Crackheads are lazy and unmotivated until it comes to robbing when the craving level gets high an the money for crack gets low.

I love your liberal babble TB !

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43dturner256(29 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

if yall noticed, most of the crimes nation wide is young people between 17 and 25, i say start the draft, and send them to afganistan, iraq, north korea, and iran, then give them all the bullets they want. i bet when they see this happening, they,ll wake up, then crime will drop big time. if they choose not to go, put them in prison for 20 years, there not helping the tax payers, so let put them to work in the interest of the USA

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44TB(1167 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

"You have condemned me for being privileged. They have the save privilege to work as I do."

What you don't get is that it's not a condemnation. To be a member of a privileged group is pretty much the opposite. Strike two Stan.

"I love your liberal babble TB !"

And as usual, you can't come up with any more salient points so you resort to spouting buzzwords and namecalling. Well done Stan! Keep up the bitterness! It's working for you.

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45Rokscout(310 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

TB the great enabler. Why don't you go down to Lucius Ave. and start handing out hugs and advice. Maybe then you can see how much help they want. Meanwhile I will keep dealing with people who aren't stealing due to the economy, but to support their drug habit.

DTURNER: I've been saying that for years. If people are so underpriveleged then they can join the military. FULL tuition, job training, life experience, and discipline. Oh wait, they don't want to sacrifice or work that hard. Drop these thugs in Baghdad and let them patrol. Guarantee they will learn that "sense of self worth" we have heard about so much. On second thought, it would have to be a draft. You can't join the military when you already have felony convictions at fifteen years old.

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46Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

TB:

Your inconsequential motivations really aren't that endearing to me . You are totally devoid of any qualities that would be conjugative to anything beneficial to mankind !

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47blkcoffee(1 comment)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Wow! I just read all of the comments & I am really sadden by all of you! Everyone here was pointing fingers & blaiming "the system" & "the man" & "the Crackheads". Would each of you go back & read the original article. We (I will include myself) get so caught up in what is wrong with this society we forget to DO something! I live in the city of Youngstown by choice! My FAMILY & I am RAISING my daughter on the eastside of Youngstown! I am the product of Youngstown City Schools & a dysfunctional family. I am what most you would consider successfully! Therefore, I feel qualified to make these comments. THE SOLUTION that everyone is looking for is to DO SOMETHING!! That does not mean throw money or stand back & judge or analyse the situation but actually TALK to some of these "poor, underpriveledged, cracked, criminals who are on welfare". Share some of your knowledge & life experience with some of these kids! Then LISTEN to some of their life experiences. I bet you will learn more that you teach! All of US need to stop being so pompus & self rightous & DO something! SAY something! Act like they are children! They are in the condition because WE THE ADULTS IN THE YOUNGSTOWN AREA have failed them! This can be corrected by getting INVOLVED! I know this will receive mixed reviews which is okay. I probably will not read them because I have a job, a husband, a 2 year old daughter, a home, a family & community that needs my attention more than this comment board. But feel free to keep talking. But the key is to start DOING! You are the ADULT be the ADULT! (Also like I said I am the product of Youngstown City Schools so please don't comment on my typos or misspelled words. My spelling is terrible but it did not stop me from EARNING 2 Master's degrees;-) Peace, Blessings & ACTIONS!

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48Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

"My spelling is terrible but it did not stop me from EARNING 2 Master's degrees;-)"

WOW !

How much did they charge you for the diploma,s ?

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49henryviii1509(274 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

"How much did they charge you for the diploma,s ?"

$5

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50TB(1167 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Actually, I was on the South side yesterday, not far from there working on a house in the neighborhood that was blighted. I had no trouble at all. Some nice people even stopped to see if I wanted some water and church youth group was going door to door.

"Meanwhile I will keep dealing with people who aren't stealing due to the economy, but to support their drug habit."
This is a generalization. Again, if I were to generalize groups of people based on your presence here on the vindy's site, it would be a sad state of affairs.

"Your inconsequential motivations really aren't that endearing to me . You are totally devoid of any qualities that would be conjugative to anything beneficial to mankind !"

Once again, Stan can't hack it. So he switched the argument.I'll just repost my point from before." And as usual, you can't come up with any more salient points so you resort to spouting buzzwords and namecalling. Well done Stan! Keep up the bitterness! It's working for you."

I didn't realize you were contributing so much to society Stan. Congrats on all your work on behalf of the greater Youngstown area!

blkcoffee makes some great points. What are the rest of you doing to give back?

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51Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

TB:
"I didn't realize you were contributing so much to society Stan. "

My taxes are helping keep the crackheads on cocaine for at least one week a month . Then when the money for crack runs out they get motovated to rob for three weeks .

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52JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Pro, you are a racist.

That is all.

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53shadowman(67 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Two people got shot, lets blame society and not the shooter. If I was to say "you black people" I would be labeled a racist making a racist remark. TB, shouldn't someone who says "you white people" also be guilty of making a racist comment? Just asking. Copswife at number 46 says it the best.

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54olddude(194 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

this whole conversation, And ive read both pages remind me of of lifelong liberal of many years whom did not believe in the death penalty and preached in front of his flock so for decades. One day his mother, wife and daughter were raped and murdered. He changed his mind. He screamed bloody murder and wanted his revenge. For anyone on this thread whom does not believe that an individual is not responsible for his or her own actions, believe me, there are things that could change your mind

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55copswife(25 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

TB i do agree with you. There alot of people out there that cheat on their taxes. Do i think it is just the rich people out there no. Did i say that only black people are on welfare absolutly not. My comments are not on wether some one is black, white, pink, or blue. Color has no factor in any of this. You can be any color and scam the system, cheat on your taxes, or commit a crime. So no i do not think us white people as you made the assumption are prejudice. I am white, i am not prejudice, nor do i cheat on my taxes or cheat any system. So you really should not make comments about people under assumption. It is us tax paying good citizens that have a right to be mad about the people that do commit these crimes.

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56JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Pro, you've made your stance on race quite clear in posts on past articles. Your "argument" here is just utter nonsense. You blame the very people who fought for the Civil Rights Act for the current state of society...by that rationale, helping protect citizens from being legally disadvantaged because of their race directly caused incidents like described in the story? Patently ridiculous. Before the leftist rhetoric comes out I'll say that my point-of-view is not a defense of any political party but rather a call for basic common sense: true cause that yields true effect.

I probably came to the wrong place for that type of thinking, though.

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57TB(1167 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

A point I've made before Jeff. Thanks.

What these posters don't realize is that I'm not providing an excuse for behavior, but an understanding of where it comes from. At no time have I said this behavior is correct or laudable...but it is understandable. I can see where it comes from and I can see the conditions that have created it. If you're ignorant enough to believe it's simply and only because someone's made a poor choice, then you have an extremely unsophisticated and sophomoric view of humanity.

I had a friend who was a policeman in Youngstown and was murdered downtown not too long ago. It still didn't make me change my so-called "liberal" mind. All it made me realize is how many bad things can happen to good people and that killing someone doesn't bring anyone else back.

"My taxes are helping keep the crackheads on cocaine for at least one week a month . Then when the money for crack runs out they get motovated to rob for three weeks ."
Total cop out...paying taxes is enough then? You're a fan of big government Stan.

"If I was to say "you black people" I would be labeled a racist making a racist remark. TB, shouldn't someone who says "you white people" also be guilty of making a racist comment? Just asking."
This is an oversimplification of race in this country. People will say things like we should be color-blind or that it doesn't matter what color someone is, but that's just false and, again, sophomoric. Trying tor educe the racial argument into some kind of Kindergarten terms misses the point entirely. It's splitting hairs and taking the discussion off topic.

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58epicfail(217 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

"Jeff, so what did the left wrought? Out of wedlock children, drugs, murder, poverty, ignorance, bankrupt cities, slums and hopelessness."

Usually it would be overkill to describe someone as "frothing at the mouth with blind jingoism" or "oblivious to reality". However once in awhile that shoe does fit.

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59XBROWNSX(35 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Why is consistent crime STILL in the black areas of Youngstown? It's been like this since the 60s. WHY?
No heavy crime in the white areas of Youngstown, Austintown, Canfield, Poland and Boardman. Why is that??
We have a black US President now. Black areas and black community leaders, time has arrived to clean up, act normal and become like the rest of us. No more excuses, it's YOU, the black thug, punk and gang bangers that is bringing Youngstown down, and putting our good Youngstown Police Dept. Officers at risk day in, day out. Night in, night out.
Many good people in Youngstown are SICK of it, including normal, good black people in Youngstown, sadly though they are too small in numbers.

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60Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

TB:
"What these posters don't realize is that I'm not providing an excuse for behavior"

RIGHT,What BS! Just a condemnation of those who don't behave in the subculture fashion .

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61TB(1167 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

That's not it either and you know it, unless you really are as obtuse as you portray yourself on these pages.

"Why is consistent crime STILL in the black areas of Youngstown? It's been like this since the 60s. WHY?"

Do a little research into what housing authorities and real estate companies did and how these communities were set up, and it'll make much more sense. It's no coincidence that the major cities in the north are pretty well divided along racial lines.

"No heavy crime in the white areas of Youngstown, Austintown, Canfield, Poland and Boardman. Why is that??"

You obviously haven't read what I posted earlier. That question has been answered.

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62backhome(8 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

I moved here, back to my home town, five years ago, believing the hype from the YSU alumni magazine about a resurgence. At first, it looked real. I found a lovely integrated neighborhood in Mill Creek Park with friendly neighbors. Gradually I discovered the truth. The Mahoning Valley lives in a state of negativity, blame, and denial. TV news broadcasts not news but false optimism. Crime is not addressed. Union attitudes from the '50s prevail among a ruling class of still neanderthal men. Where is this hard-working middle-class you all claim? Most people I've met aim toward claiming disability. That seems to be the goal. And it's not racial. It's primarily white people. Intimidation, if you can pull it off, is the prime method of transacting business and city government. If people don't win an argument, they shut down and walk off. Other cities barter, they negotiate, they listen while Youngstown dies. Youngstown has a viable university and unbelievable Mill Creek Park! You're all starving in the midst of a banquet! All you have to do is open your eyes, consider therapy for Pete's sake, and CHANGE.

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63chayse457(13 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Once again the black man wants to pick up his "racist club" and beat the white man over the head! When will the time come that we all realize that if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it's a damn duck!!!!

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64chayse457(13 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Oh lord, backhome recommends CHANGE. Well backhome, thanks to you and the rest of the blind leading the blind to the polls voting for the "Chosen One" that is what Y-Town has left, pocket CHANGE!!

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65Stan(9923 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

TB:

It's not crime ! In the subculture it is all about opportunity . When you try to decimate crime they scream that they are being denied opportunity .

YEP, YEP, YEP, IT'S ALL GOOD !

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66DoctorGonzo(728 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

All good in theory...but no. This thread reads like a diatribe of people who have had their minds zapped by too much cable television.

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67LocalYokel(12 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

Youngstown area is full of complainers. People who have nothing better to do than get in trouble and post negative comments on Vindy.com. I'm getting sick of it and wondering if I should have just stayed in Toledo. Other major cities in Ohio are moving ahead, but Ytown stays behind. It's not the fault of the mayor, police, schools, parents, society, different race, it's the fault of each individual. It's your life, take control of it or someone else will. It is exhausting living in the youngstown area. Bunch of babies, pointing fingers from the sidelines.

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68shadowman(67 comments)posted 4 years, 9 months ago

It is simplifying things TB because we live in Youngstown where it takes decades to make any sort of change happen. The more complicated you make things, the less chance of anything happening, or anyone understanding. Youngstown still lives in the era of closed steel mills. As for white and black, you shouldn't make assumptions as to who does what. The topic is two people got shot on the south side in a black neighborhood and it is not even in the news anymore. Would it be if it happened in say, Canfield or Poland, or even Boardman?

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69XBROWNSX(35 comments)posted 4 years, 8 months ago

TB, (Post #73) That IS IT, QUIT making excuses. Nothing I posted is not 100% the truth, and you know it.

Too much crime, bad, violent crime, is and has been commiteed on Youngstown's South Side, in predominately all-black areas. that's FACT, not fiction.

Too many Youngstown Police Dept. officers must put up with this BS on a daily and nightly basis. You can be poor, nothing wrong with that. being poor doesn't give a person an excuse to become a thug, punk and lawbreaker - ruining other innocent lives with the crimes they commit.

We have too many examples of poor black kids who rise up, get an education, act normal speak *gasp!* normal and generally become a true man, a man who controls his own life and destiny, and experiences all the peaks and valleys of life that we ALL experience. Nothing in life is a bed of roses.

Again, it's been this way since the 60s, and it's a shame. LocalY (Post #79) hit the nail on the head. Until each individual looks out for themselves, nothing will change. Now is the time for black leaders to ccome with the message of NO MORE EXCUSES.

If black people can't make it in the United States of America, they'll never make. No other country in the world has offered more opportunity, wealth and upper mobility for African Americans (God, I hate these PC hyphenated "buzz-words") than the USA.

For every black person jilted in some real estate quadmire, there are 7-8 who bought and sold real estate just like everyone else. Again, NO MORE EXCUSES.

Too bad I and some others have visions of Youngstown, OHIO where all people take charge of their own life, quit relying on WELFARE as a "job discription" and most importantly, keep your hands off of other people and property of others that you have ZERO business being around, or touching.

Those things happen, and suddenly Youngstown crime is nil to non-existent.

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