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« Opinion
Just buy American
Just buy American
EDITOR:
I recently read an article about American cars in The Vindicator.
Dennis Sullivan, a Miami University economic professor, said he tells his students that they can buy American cars made by Honda in Marysville and by Toyota in Georgetown, Ky. I think this professor better wake up and tell the truth. These Hondas and Toyotas are foreign cars. They are made here, but they are foreign. The profits of foreign car sales go to the companies in Japan or other countries.
I know that to try to buy anything made in America is very difficult today. Clothing, appliances, tools, almost everything, include some American flags, are made in China. It’s a foreign market on our soil.
ROBERT E. WOLF
Canfield
electrician101 (18 comments)posted 4 months, 12 days agoOK Search4Answers,
Since you got your head so far up your arse you haven't noticed the the entire economy of the US is in the dumper, not just the MV.
The ONLY people doing well are the 5% that own 95% of the wealth.
Thats right, people in the non union "south" are losing jobs too. The problem is the "south" pays 40% less for the same exact jobs in the "north". Who exactly does it benefit, the worker or the "boss"? NOT the worker.
It benefits people like the CEO of Nike that has it's manuf. plants in Indonesia where 13 year old girls sew up Nike shoes for 13 hrs and no breaks working in their feces and urine for the grand total of $1.25 WEEK. Of course they don't want to deal with the "stupid unions"; they would actually be forced to pay a living wage. It costs them $5/shoe and they sell them for $100/pr. Yea bury your head in the sand some more.
People don't pay taxes when they make less than $25,000/yr.; the average wage in the 88% non union USofA. Thats why SS and Medicare are going broke.
It's people like you that are the embarrassment with your moronic reasoning.
Search4Answers (612 comments)posted 4 months, 12 days ago Social Security is going broke because its a Ponzi scheme, there's not mystery about that.
And also about my other point, yeah the rest of the country is also in the dumper but it hasn't been for decades like MV. Also I'm not talking about outside the US, here in the US we have labor laws and are developed enough to not necessarily need unions as they currently are.
I personally believe in the option of being in a union, its wrong to require a person to be in a union or not to be in one.
The union areas don't seem to be doing as well as the nonunion areas when you go there. Example Columbus/Central Ohio and Youngstown/Cleveland/Akron.
You never hear a story about unions trying to destroy local businesses like they are with Nemenz here in Columbus.
But what do I know my future career doesn't have unions and I buy from honda.
And yeah, I know the economy is in the dumper, I'm extremely informed about it actually.
CCADTI (34 comments)posted 4 months, 11 days ago I used to work for Packard Electric/GM. I worked in the drafting department and made maintenance manuals on how to take machines apart and put them back together. I also drove a new GM car. As soon as I got done with the maintenance manuals, I got laid off and the machines were pulled out and sent to Mexico along with my maintenance manuals. I worked myself right out of a job. I owe GM nothing. I now drive new Toyotas.
rocky14 (84 comments)posted 4 months, 11 days ago That's why Packard got rid of you---they knew you were going to buy a Toyota
JME (54 comments)posted 4 months, 10 days ago electrician101, your really reaching on that last post.
As far as supporting GM and Lordstown, are you suggesting that we all should drive a Cobalt to keep the money in the Valley (instead of Marysville)?
Buying a GM vehichle made in Dayton or Wisconsin would be the same as buying a Honda made in Marysville.,
JME (54 comments)posted 4 months, 10 days ago Not to mention that the Mahoning Valley economy has been in the tank allot longer than the rest of the country.
Why is it that Honda/Toyota, even with slumping sales, can pay they're bills and keep operating?
The current economy is not the root of GM's problems, it's their whole operation.
Search4Answers (612 comments)posted 4 months, 10 days ago Yeah, GM, Ford, and Chrysler have been losing money a better part of the decade, the poor economy just accellerated the decline.
electrician101 (18 comments)posted 4 months, 9 days ago Do you people comprehend what you post or do you just shoot from the hip?
JME:
There's no denying buying a Cobalt would have direct impact on supporting the Lordstown plant but since they are owned by GM ANY GM vehicle purchased would return the profits to GM and in turn would afford them the capital to reinvest in the Lordstown plant for future products. So no, buying a Honda from Marysville isn't even close to supporting Lordstown as compared to buying ANY GM model from wherever it's assembled; even Mexico.
Something else you people don't realize:
On average only 17% of the total foreign vehicles sold in the US are assembled here. The rest are imported from Japan. Not every Honda Civic sold in the US comes from the Marysville plant. The same goes for Toyota. Some makes like Acura's TL are 100% imported.
If you want to purchase a foreign vehicle do so because you like the styling or you think it's a better car but DO NOT defend your purchase by calling them "American" because it makes you sound like an idiot.
Here, learn something; this site will let you compare how many jobs are created in the US by selecting specific autos:
http://www.levelfieldinstitute.org/compa...
Now for your's and search4answers second point:
US auto companies have been in existence for over 77 years. In comparison the foreign companies like those from Japan have been in the US market less than half of that time. Honda in Marysville is the oldest plant and it's just approaching 30 years. The bottom line is the foreign transplants don't have many retirees yet. The Domestics have 300 times more retirees than do the foreign mfgs. To put it simply, companies like GM have a retirement obligation that doesn't go away when the economy tanks. Honda and Toyota merely layoff employees and wait for the economy to pick up. But since the Japanese have a concept called "employment for life" these furloughed employees STILL collect a 40 hr paycheck and that's why both Toyota and Honda lost money so far this year. But since they don't have a retirement obligation they have the extra capital to ride out the storm. Its like comparing apples to oranges and that is what most people in the valley don't get. They think that if GM Lordstown fails then no big deal; it's only 2500 jobs. What they forget is that there are thousands of other jobs created from parts to services that would be affected. Eliminating retirement benefits would affect the 80% of OVER 15,000 GM and Delphi retirees still residing in the MV.
Do you get the picture yet?
Search4Answers (612 comments)posted 4 months, 9 days ago A lot of companies are moving away from the traditional pensions and into 401k, that will probably help a lot of companies whether economic hardships. GM's collapse isn't simply because the economy fell off the cliff they've been losing money for years.
Also I need correct something I've said earlier, while the civic once was made in ohio its productions now has been moved to indiana and some other car like the crv or ridgeline is now being built in that plant.
I'm also living in Columbus (Youngstown is my hometown) and plan to live in Columbus in the future so the idea that I'm obligated to buy GM because I'm from youngstown doesn't phase me. I got a honda because I like the cars and it just so happened a large majority of honda's on the road in America are built in ohio/america. I'm not claiming that they are American cars but that they are as American as GM and Chrysler so the idea of buying American is no longer applicable.
I believe in buying the best car and if GM and Chrysler made better cars and weren't owned by government I would buy their cars. I considered Ford but I really like my honda.
JME (54 comments)posted 4 months, 9 days ago Please provide information that is not biased toward one side - even that information is not correct.
Your 17% number doesn't match the reports 51%. And it's not just retirees that is killing GM - the infamous jobs bank for example. GM is too large and inefficient, the employment numbers look great (= losing $)
Talk about apples to oranges. The report compared GM, Ford, and Chrysler's research dollars to Exxon. I imagine they couldn't beat out Honda or Toyota. U.S. employment and production compares Ford to Kia/Hyundai. Some of the data does not even compare GM/Ford to Honda/Toyota - why is that?
Incidently, AK Steel out of Dayton is a Honda supplier - good paying union jobs. Honda and Toyota didn't want GM to fail because they use many of the same parts suppliers as GM - even raising their prices to help out the big 3.. Your report states that on average, foreign cars built in the U.S. only contain 34% domestic parts - completely incorrect - those number are greater than 70%, same as GM and Ford.
Face it, Honda and Toyota are just as Americanized as GM, and they're growing and providing U.S. jobs. Honda just opened a new plant in southern Indiana - Ohio was the runner-up. Why was the potential Ohio site for Honda not in northeast Ohio, where there would be a qualified workforce?
It's amazing how the Level Field Institute only used select data, instead of an un-biased comparison.
Did you notice the slide that showed Ohio as one of the larger states for auto parts supplier employment, but failed to break-down which companies (GM, Honda, Ford, etc.) are buying those parts? Talk about manipulating the data.
Do you have data from a neutral party?
Severstal Steel (formarly WCI) in Warren is now owned by a Russian company - are you against them even though they're local and provide union jobs?
If the UAW could get their foot in Honda and Toyota's door, we wouldn't be having this discussion and their would be no negative talk about those companies - it's all about "buy union".
JME (54 comments)posted 4 months, 9 days ago In addition to Honda's Marysville plant, there is another one located 15 minutes away in East Liberty. That plant was producting the Civic, but as search4answers mentioned, now in Indiana. Marysville was producing the Accord and 2 Acura models. Honda's plants are built to be able to change vehicle models to suit demand.
JME (54 comments)posted 4 months, 9 days ago Hope your not supporting Budweiser beer, now that they're foreigned owned.
JME (54 comments)posted 4 months, 9 days ago electrician101, Acura TL's are not imported as you incorrectly state - they are built in Marysville.
You know allot about shooting from the hip and looking like an idiot.
The company is appropriately titled "Honda of America Manufacturing, Inc."
An older study, but you get the picture of the economic impact that Honda has on Ohio:
http://www.ohio.honda.com/companyinfo/fi...
hope4thevalley (391 comments)posted 4 months, 9 days ago Japan just gave Toyota 50 B and will most likey give honda money too . HMMMMMM .
redvert (495 comments)posted 4 months, 9 days ago Wonder if the Japanese government took over control of Toyota and Honda and fired their CEO's?
Oh, that's right. "Only in America"
hope4thevalley (391 comments)posted 4 months, 9 days ago Yes that was the USA . But in Japan the government pays all the health care and a life time pension . Plus they control CEO's pay. SO MAYBE THEY DO CONTROL THEM .
HMMMMM that is a leave playing field
JME (54 comments)posted 4 months, 9 days ago what is "leave playing field"?
Show us where Japan government pays all of the health care and pension
I love the comment "most likely"
You are also reaching.
JME (54 comments)posted 4 months, 9 days ago hope4thevalley, don't you have a thought on the foreign-owned local steel company, Severstal?
I guess it's ok because the union represents the workers.
Admit it, buy union is what you and electrician want.
JME (54 comments)posted 4 months, 9 days ago Once again, GM will be the follower
http://www.indiana.honda.com/indiana.cfm...
JME (54 comments)posted 4 months, 9 days ago Allot of happy American blue-collar workers in that picture.
Isn't that what the UAW keeps whining about, creating blue-collar jobs?
Maybe if the local unions would wake up, they would have something to be happy about.
Instead, they want to mask the problems with the statement "buy GM".
kecocona (6 comments)posted 4 months, 8 days ago (This comment was removed by the site staff.)
electrician101 (18 comments)posted 4 months, 8 days ago JME:
Ok so I made a typo. The Acura RL is 100% Japanese; refute that.
No matter how you spin it GM supports 78 jobs per vehicle sold in the US while Honda supports 44. Deal with it.
The "jobs bank"? You do know that the jobs bank was created to prevent jobs from relocating overseas? The concept was NOT "dreamed up" by the UAW instead it was a mirror of the Japanese concept "employment for life". Well, the Japanese STILL have their "jobs bank" and the UAW doesn't. You don't hear too many people complaining about the Japanese jobs bank and how that is a poor idea and inefficient do you? And they created it! Oh, and if Honda and Toyota, are so efficient and great why have they posted negative earning so far this year?
Face it, your whole tirade isn't about Honda vs GM economics, it's about your anti-union stance.
YSUgrad99 (179 comments)posted 4 months, 8 days ago The Japanese don't have a 'jobs bank!' They just don't lay off workers. Our 'jobs bank' allows laid off workers to earn up to 90% of their pay for doing nothing for up to two years. Please tell me how the two are the same? The Japanese don't lay their people off and pay them to work. We pay our laid off workers not to work...nonesense!
JME (54 comments)posted 4 months, 8 days ago I worked for Honda, there is no job banks program.
Jobs bank was created so that the UAW wouldn't whine when robots replaced people - and it was the UAW who would cry strike if GM management wanted to eliminate it.
Honda is as American as GM.
78 jobs per vehicle = losing money (well before the current economic conditions existed)
Your argument is to buy GM vehichles, to mask their inefficient operations.
Stop referring to the union bible to argue facts.
Face it, the unions have destroyed the manufacturing plants they have occupied - and are completely obsolete in today's world.
I noticed you won't touch the Severstal question - local company, but foreigned owned. Is it because they have union representation? According to your philosophy, companies shouldn't buy steel from Severstal - even though they provide local jobs.
Your argument is based on union GM vs. non-union Honda/Toyota. It has nothing to due with the Japanese name.
JME (54 comments)posted 4 months, 8 days ago Incidently, GM and the UAW created the mess facing the retirees issue - didn't they think that far in advance? I would be willing to bet that Honda and Toyota won't face that problem when a large number of their workforce reaches retirement.
None the less, GM has to deal with it, and management and the UAW don't have any solutions other than asking people to buy their products so that the problems can remain hidden.
GM is a complete dysfunctional organization.
JME (54 comments)posted 4 months, 8 days ago Since you bring up the economics (specifically in the United States), deal with this from the Center for Automotive Research:
http://corporate.honda.com/images/banner...
Looks allot like an American company.
electrician101 (18 comments)posted 4 months, 8 days ago Well the truth comes out; JME "worked" for Honda. Go figure.
When they layoff people at Honda (like they did this year) they don't collect a 40 hr paycheck for doing non-traditional auto assembly work? Better check it out.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUK34212+...
""Like Toyota, Honda previously paid its nonunion hourly
workers even when it shut down factories to reduce inventory.
But Honda said this time hourly workers would not be paid for six
of the 13 days, to be scattered between May 1 and July 31."
Uh huh...
Honda and Toyota are notorious for NOT telling the truth about their inner-workings as they fear it may sully their 'wannabe' American company name.
As far as retirements are concerned Honda, Toyota and the other foreign transplants had the advantage of entering the US market 40 years after GM.
http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/me...
Remember this:
You can blame the unions and UAW all you want but no UAW member has ever designed, determined the manufacturing location of, the processes used to manufacture, the parts and quality of the parts used in the manufacture of any vehicle produced by GM. The UAW assembled them according to GM's specifications. Look no further than Toyota; they build the Corolla and Tundra in the US with workers represented by the UAW and it's not causing them problems.
When people are losing their jobs by the droves it doesn't matter what car company you support. People don't have the money to purchase vehicles right now and they are ALL sitting on the lots rotting, INCLUDING HONDAS!
electrician101 (18 comments)posted 4 months, 8 days ago Want to talk economics? Here is what it would cost the US if the domestics failed:
(Taken from the same Center for Automotive Research you so proudly toted)
http://www.cargroup.org/documents/FINALD...
JME (54 comments)posted 4 months, 8 days ago If GM and Chrysler fails, those consumers will buy from another manufacturer, which would increase that production and need for employees - that's how economics and the free market works.
GM's Net Income since 2005:
2005 $10,417 million loss
2006 $1,978 million loss (a good year)
2007 $38,732 million loss
2008 $30,860 million loss
UAW members are reponsible for operational inefficiencies created by bogus work rules, and assembly defects, which GM customers know so well, including myself.
I was a temp. at Honda while pursuing a degree, not a manager.
I was however a manager a two Valley unionized plants which closed because of the high-cost to make products.
You are right in that Honda and Toyota's sales are down due to the current economy, but once again your hard headed union attitude prevents you from seeing the problems GM had in better times - look again at GM's Net Income above - better sales will only mask their problems.
GM and Honda have essentially the same resources to operate in this country - but the bottom line is making money. As Honda and Toyota build plants and provide jobs, GM is going in the opposite direction.
JME (54 comments)posted 4 months, 8 days ago The links you posted represent the current downturn.
Where at in the last 20+ years have Honda or Toyota paid it's people 90% of their wages to sit at home? There is no Honda "jobs bank"
You have provided no evidence to contradict the issues I have brought up.
Speaking of the Acura RL, what GM vehicles are only built in Canada and imported into the United States? Aren't you being a hypocrite?
You have no comment of Severstal because it refutes your argument.
JME (54 comments)posted 4 months, 8 days ago "Honda and Toyota are notorious for not telling the truth..."
Is that from the union's greatest hits book?
JME (54 comments)posted 4 months, 8 days ago Ah, even if GM fails domestically, they still have their other 75 facilities in 22 other countries - doesn't sound like they're a full American company, does it?
redvert (495 comments)posted 4 months, 7 days ago JME, took you awhile but you shot em down! The Honda contribution part was perfect.
Search4Answers (612 comments)posted 4 months, 6 days ago Haha I just laughed when I read electrician saying gm supports 78 jobs per vehicle while honda only supports 44.
That reminded me of reading an article like this. http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/New...
Its not the exact article but the one I saw said that basically toyota makes a car faster, more reliable, and with less people than GM for each vehicle they make.
From what I can take from electrician he believes its good to have a dysfunctional company.... last I checked the country who was living out his dream was the soviet union. Everyone had a job there, sure they made crap and no one had money, but they had jobs. :-P
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Comments
GM and Chrysler are owned by foreigners. GM is owned partially by Canada, Chrysler by the foreign Fiat. What makes you think American's aren't partial owners of Toyota or Honda? They are both offered on American exchanges, so technically you could have partial ownership Toyota or Honda.
I think you better wake up. Want a Pontiac G8? Your butt would be sitting in a Austrialian made product.
There are no such things as American, Asian, or European car companies anymore except for aesthetic design, maybe some engineering. Their products are manufatured in different locations around the world, they are subject to corporate taxation in the countries in which they sell, and for most manufacturers anyone could hold ownership of it.
If you want to purchase shares of Toyota its listed under the ticker name TM or for Honda you can purchase it under the ticker name of HMC.
Is that American enough for you?
The whole buy American car campaign is nothing but a tool of the UAW. There was a time when an American made car was just that, a car made in America and a Japanese car was made in Japan. Now neither one of those statements are true.
My 2003 Aztek is an American car that was built in Mexico by GM. Nothing was manufactured here in the US for my car. So how does this differ from the 2009 Toyota Prius my wife bought?
Both cars were assembled outside the USA. Both cars used parts manufactured outside the USA. Both were imported to the United States. Yet union members will thank me for buying American when they see me get in the Aztek or flip me off when I get into the Toyota.
Find one "American" vehicle that uses 100% "American" made parts. It does not exist. While Toyota and Honda do the exact same thing here in the US that GM and others do, build cars here in the USA with parts made here and abroad, they get roasted for one thing and one thing only. THEY DO NOT RUN A UAW SHOP. If the UAW was assembling those Toyota, Nissan and Honda cars, the story would be very different.
The only difference I see between "foreign" and "American" is that "foreign" companies are trying to start to build their cars here, and "American" seems to be trying to build elsewhere.
Toyota is waiting for the market to pick back up before moving production of the Prius to America, they already build many cars here. Honda builds a good amount of their cars right here in Ohio. It seems the foreigners plans go like this, make a car people want often first in Japan (hard for GM to make one, i know) then when they get a firm market share they branch production off to manufacturing plants around the world, many of them in the United States. In fact, VW is planning on trying to capture some of the pie here and is going to open their own manufacturing plant here. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if some of these foreign car companies buy former american car companies manufacturing plants.
Buy American? Buy Union would be a better way. If it's union made then it most likely was made in the USA.
I have been buying Hondas since 1999 after numerous problems with GM products. No problems - ever - and all the employees at the dealership are....OMG...Americans!!!
Using the flawed logic of the writer, we can no longer buy Chrysler or GM since they are not 100% American owned companies. It's time the people of the valley get into the 21st century but that might be asking too much.
"Buy American" is code words for "buy union". But they know if they say "buy union", less people would be interested. So they try to make you feel unpatriotic if you don't buy union. Think about it, there is not much less American than a union. Forced membership, forced dues, being told how to act by someone you pay, being told how to vote, not representing yourself in personal (employment) decisions, basically being a follower, etc. That life is fine for some, but not me. Unions killed the steel industry and almost killed the car industry in the U.S. The "foreigners" saved it, and offered those who want to work in the auto industry an alternative to the UAW labor cartel.
WOW so much hate for America . And your neighbors .
Not hate, truth. Aren't Americans (and Ohioans at that) building those Honda's in Marysville? Let go of the "hate" posts.
And the profits do stay in the local communities - just drive around central Ohio and take notice. GM is closing American plants and Honda/Toyota are building them - it's obvious where each company is putting it's profits.
The real issue is that the UAW isn't representing those workers - nothing to do with a Japanese name.
According to the letter writer's philosophy, you shouldn't buy those Budweiser beer products anymore either, they are now foreign owned - even though the company employs many Americans.
The local union supporters are simply still living in the 1950's and don't understand the implications of their buy American (or union) folly.
Every time "hope4thevalley" writes, he/she starts with the hate talk. No one here hates anyone. You can't defend your position on the issue, so you say we all hate. Just like some who use the term racist when they can't argue the facts. You will find this hard to believe, but I desperately want to support America. But I won't support those who are tearing it down and destroying it and our major industries, and people's livelihoods.
When I look up the word "foreign" in the dictionary one of the examples given is "situated outside one's own country"
Would that mean cars built in Canada or Mexico would meet the criteria of being foreign? Or would they be have to be "special" to pacify certain people?
Last sentence should be "Or would they have to be "special" to pacify certain people?"
Didn't finish my editing!
sounds like hate to me
Everything sounds like hate to you, hope4thevalley. Anything of substance you would like to add? Maybe call your shop steward for some talking points.
I do not work for a union .I'm retired from my own business if it is any business of yours. I had 3 companies two with union workers and one without.The ones with unions did better than the one with out .The workers were better trained and more dependable then the others . So before you run at your mouth you better look into what you are talking about . And as you read a lot of these comments you can see the hate and misinformation coming out.
Honda and Toyota's track record speak for themselfs - and the don't have Union workers.
Let's talk about the letter writers hate toward American blue-collar Honda and Toyota workers.
Things seemed to be going a lot better in the Valley in the '50s than they presently are, Apollo.
But you still have the same Unions and politicians influence in the area over that time period. The rest of the world adapted, nothing stays the same.
Please don't put my flag on your foreign car !
That includes the GM products made in Canada, Mexico, etc.
Notice that the union advocates do not want to touch the Canada/Mexico issue. We will probably get some feeble attempt now.
Nascar, three out of the four brands are foreign by the dictionary's interpertation. Toyota is the only domestic!
Jeff, just asking, since things were so much better for the blue collar worker in the fifties (and I agree), why didn't other industry flock to Ytown to take advantage of the available work force. Legitimate question.
Like a previous poster said, it should be "buy Union"
Then the saying could be "don't put my flag on your non-union car"
Severstal steel in Warren is owned by a Russion company, and has a union representing their workers. I would like to know from the pro-union advocates who say buy American, how they feel about Severstal? After all, it is a foreign owned company. Oh that's right, the company's ok if there's a union.
Incidently, Honda's Ohio operations uses AK Steel out of Dayton, which has Union representation. So, don't buy a Honda, put some Union steel workers out of work.
Why can't we say business is business and buy the best car for the best price that makes you and your tastes happy.
The "American auto industry" is nothing but a badge and has no true significance. People are free to choose what they wish to purchase, or atleast they should be, and may the best company that competes fairly win and let the companies who can't keep up fail, its called a free market and is the basis of personal freedom and liberty.
Search4Answers, well put.
Some people/organizations refuse to wake up.
red-excellent question that I can't fully answer. If you're suggesting that companies would be afraid that they'd set up shop and face an organization among their workforce within a year or so I wouldn't disagree. My comment, however, was meant to draw a superficial comparison, not to look for deep causal reasoning.
Casinos and new businesses that play on the "green" trend are what needs to happen at this point.
Wasn't "buy American" started during WW2 as war propaganda to keep as much money in the country to help us win the war? Back then, that slogan was important and significant to our way of life.
If we all bought American and Canada bought only Canadian, if Mexico only bought Mexican, if the British only bought Britian, etc., etc.,. Would this make all of us, the whole world happy? Every country would only sell and buy to itself?
I wonder what would've happened if Columbus didn't take a boat ride to make a short cut to Asia in 1492 to trade for their spices.
Did any of you ever worked at a foreign country factory in their country? In Japan and China when your boss comes around you must bow to him. That most workers have to live at the plant properties,where they are not allowed to socialize with the outside world. In other terms ,they are slave to their company. They are just machines, to be programed by their bosses.If you didn't do as they say, you were beaten or shame in front of your co-workers.Things are different here only because the goverment won't allow it.
Here's the problem---ALL the profits goes back to Japan,South Korea etc.
95% of cars sold in Europe are European cars--they sound a lot smarter then us.
I find it interesting that Mr. Wolf tries to question the economic theories put forth by a professor who has a masters and ph.d. from Princeton. Not that pieces of paper really mean anything but I would guess that a guy with 40 years of economics study and UN experience may be able to explain how buying hondas and toyotas could actually benefit the domestic economy even though that is not rocket science, or perhaps the professor is just plain lying like Mr. Wolf alleges.
Laughable man.
I LOVE my Ohio Built Honda Accord
I LOVE putting Ohioans to work in Marysville.
I LOVE driving a quality car that does not break down.
I LOVE driving the #2 car in 2009, the Honda Accord.
per: http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_...
We have 50 billion invested in GM.You would think people would want them to succeed so we can get our money back.
Valleyred is worried about workers in Marysville??
How about workers in the Mahoning Valley--unless you live in Marysville.
rocky....valleyred aka. ( boy howdy) is just some kid that hasn't made his own way in life yet but he thinks he has all the answers. I'll wait to see what he has to say after he spends at least ten years in the real world.
O because I am a conservative I for some odd reason do not have a brain and can't think for myself?
Go ahead and continue believing that one cambridge.
I am not going to buy a car with second-rate ratings in Consumer Reports and JD Power. If I am going to buy a car, like you would a computer or TV, you go out and buy the thing that has the best ratings.
yeah, all the profit goes back overseas. When Toyota/Honda/Hyundai build factories in the U.S. do they plant factory seeds and watch it sprout from the ground? seems like ya need a pretty good cash infusion to build a vehicle assembly facility.
You too can own toyota (TM) and honda (HMC) and receive the dividends from their profits. So to say all the profits go back over seas is saying that you are simply uneducated.
Also to claim GM or Chrysler as an "American" car company is also claiming to be uneducated. A foreign company and unions own Chrysler and the government of the us and canada along with the Unions own GM.
I refuse to buy from a car company that has sold me nothing buy crap in the past thats why I bought a civic the other day since my chrysler has kept breaking down on me.
To be proud to drive a Honda, built in America by Americans is a noble cause. If you think that it was OK that when the plant was built, the Americans were not allowed to display American flags within the facility. The American flag also was lower than the Japenese flag while flown in front of the facility. Not until all of the employees walked out, was the American flag flown at an equal height to the Japenese flag. Employees were then PERMITTED to display American flags on their personal items (lunch boxes) not larger than 3" X 5". If you are OK with that, then buy a Honda. I am not a union member and I do agree that Americans have the right to purchase the "best products". If you also believe that, you would purchase a Buick that has consistently outperformed Toyota and Honda (even Lexus) for quality the last few years. But the real reason I am writing is that I find it extremely uncomfortable reading posts from individuals about how happy they are with their Accords and Civics. If I were certain that these are, in fact salepeople/employees of local Honda dealerships then it would be less creepy. But if the proud posters are indeed men, and are happy or proud to drive Civics, then I'm a little creeped out by that. I can honestly say that I have never personally known a member of the male gender that has purchased a Honda Auotmobile. Maybe it's just me, but every time I see a guy in a civic, and it's not too often, I have to assume that his girlfriend lent him the car, or he is suffering from extremely low self esteem. Think about it, except for the weird little dude on the Preston commercials, what kind of men drive Civics. Unless, of course, he is the posters.
I support GM cars...just bought another one last month....but I know for a fact its assembled in Canada. So what is an American car anymore?
If I buy a Honda or Toyota made in the USA, American workers are still being paid to build them...so some money stays here even though profits go overseas.
If we're to advance into a world market, we can't afford to be so blind. At best, all you can do anymore is support the American worker...not the company!
Lets look at more facts:
John Deere
Caterpillar
Briggs & Stratton
Maytag
Ford
Saturn
RCA
Motorola...
...all made with foreign components & labor.
And so much more....
your computer...
your furniture...
your clothing...
your food...
your medicine...
...the only thing made in USA today are your kids. And sometimes that's not working out real well either.
Get over it. We ARE a world economy now. We only have to learn how to work with it and earn from it. We have the people...we just need the desire.
Buy American ! What a joke. And then have the gull to say buy union. I know as a Tradesman this is taught in our training. But what does a person on the assembly line know about this? NOTHING! Look at their lives. How many of them have a Union Roofing Co. come to their home and fix or put a new one on ? Your the biggest Scabs out their. Go get a job at Wal-Mart. You people started this now live with it. Rememember the Steel Worker or the Steel you Rats use. Buy Honda !!!!!!
i moved my family to the valley from out of state 15 years ago for what i thought was a great business opportunity. there were unions where i came from, but not this type of a strangling, stronghold that still tries to intimidate and rule this area. i really love the majority of my customers but when this valley continues to choose to not move on and stays true to it's union roots, it will continue to decline and become stuck in the past like it has since the steel mills went down. i am so sick of hearing people around here living in the past-make sure your kids are educated and the valley needs top notch tech jobs to survive-but that will never happen as long as the union continues to force their views on businesses that want to relocate here. no one wants to be told how to run their business-and most business owners try to treat people fairly. i know that i will get a ton of pro union responses-but let me tell you that all you need to do is drive less than an hour away and you will see that the rest of the world survives just fine without unions and is doing much better than we are here. i can no longer keep trying to run a business that cares about it's community and employees, but always has the union mentality hanging over our heads, so we will sell as soon as we can get a fair price. we are taking a huge financial hit, but i can't stand living in the past anymore.
Sophie,
Good Luck and God Bless You.
Just look at what "THE UNIONS" are trying to do to Mr. Nemenz and his stores.
We make it a point to shop at locally owned NON-UNION businesses.
Yes, I am very educated, former "Valley" business owner and now I consult all over the world.
My employees were family to me; they didn't need a union.
Take care.
Sophie,
I moved my family OUT of the area 13 years ago for this reason. The people of "the valley" are still living in the past and waiting for the glory days of the steel mills to come back.
The last time I looked, Honda, Toyota, BMW and other foreign companies were the only ones building new plants in America and I don't remember them bringing in their "own people" to do the work. The whole "buy American" is a great concept and I try to follow it, but as we all know it's very difficult. To buy American now means buying something that is foreign owned. And to say "buy union" is just stupid (sorry but true). The unions are the one's that got us into this problem. They got fat and greedy. The government should have let GM and Chrysler go under and come back as non-union plants. Then they would have been competitive and the workers still would have earned a good honest living.
Like I've said before "The Unions built this country and they are now Destroying it"
I remember when American companies didn't need to beg people to buy their products. They also didn't need to be bailed out by taxpayers in order to afford collective bargaining agreements that no longer work in the 21st century, global economy.
As has been pointed out, none of these companies are purely "foreign" or "American", and those who cry "Buy American" really mean "Buy Union". The least they can do is be honest about it.
I can understand if someone buys a Japanese or other foreign auto if they would just admit they have an axe to grind with the UAW and GM as their reason and not some cockamamie BS, dreamed up, excuse to legitimize their purchase.
Toyotas, Hondas, Kias, et al are foreign owned companies; it doesn't make ANY difference if they are "global". GM is "global". A person that sells on ebay and accepts payments from around the world is "global". It doesn't mean the company becomes American if they have a few mfg. facilities in the US. It's where the company is headquartered.
For example:
Toyota...Aichi, Japan and Tokyo, Japan
Honda...Minato, Japan and Tokyo, Japan
Kia...Seoul, South Korea
Nissan...Chūō, Tokyo, Japan
GM...Detroit, Michigan United States
You people sound like idiots when you say a Toyota or Honda is "American" strictly because it MAY have been assembled from mostly imported parts in a transplant assembly plant located somewhere in the US.
Answer a simple question:
Do the people that work at the Marysville, OH Honda plant support local businesses and pay local taxes to the Mahoning Valley?
No. Thats what I thought.
Do the people that work at the GM Lordstown plant along with ALL the workers employed at the MANY satellite plants that supply it for parts support local businesses and pay local taxes to the Mahoning Valley?
Yes. That's what I thought.
If Toyota or Honda had a plant in the valley by all means buy one. It would be the smart thing to do if you owned a business or home here. The last time I looked GM still owned the plant located in MV so supporting some other auto would only help the possibility of the GM plant closing and sending your home or business value into the abyss.
Grow some. You want to boycott the UAW and GM by purchasing foreign then tell the people at GM where YOU work so they can boycott you.
Of course you won't have to because if GM closes the plant in Lordstown then you are going to kiss YOUR job and home good-bye anyway.
You people are pathetic.
Even a dog is smart enough not to Sh*t in his own house.
electrician101,
Thinking like that is exactly what makes Youngstown the embarressment of Ohio, and thats saying a lot when we have Cleveland and Akron
As a young person in college, I'm not going to lie I'm not coming back to Youngstown. I'm tired of hearing about the stupid unions/UAW. Your vote doesn't even count because you really have one choice... the democrat and they don't do a dang thing good for the area or the country. The areas economy's been in the tank FOR YEARS, and the people never have nor will they wake up and realize the blame falls on them for keeping it in the tank for decades. Something in the area has to change because the rest of the world doesn't give a crap about Youngstown.
Is it really any mystery why there aren't jobs, why would any business actually want to come to Youngstown? No one wants to deal with the stupid unions, meanwhile the rest of the world has/had been doing just fine.
If you want businesses to come back lower the taxes and stop letting the unions choke businesses. It seems the areas that do that have gotten manufacturers in, such as toyota in kentucky and honda in central ohio.
I think a lot of people share this feeling since people are fleeing so I would say thats justification enough to hold my view.
Nicely said search4answers, and I'm a Dem. (soon to be independent). Your right, I was living in KY when Hyndai (spelling is way off, but you get my drift) was looking for a location. And the valley was not on thier radar. I wonder why? Oh yeah it's the unions.
And to Electrician101, I hear you. The problem is the quality of the GM product coming out was not good, and the reputation of Honda and Toyota made it so if you had to spend your hard earned money it was going to be the best product possilbe.
And yes I do have an axe to grind with UAW and other unions (not all) for as Search4Anwsers stated the unions continue to "choke businesses".
I think unions have had their time.