Schools take $29M hit with loss of pupils

less students should = less teachers = less money

Wow--Interesting. But charter schools seem the smaller portion of the problem, no? (360) The larger issue is other public school districts and clearly these districts are outperforming Youngstown. I think you have to face the fact that discipline issues must be a part of the problem because Youngstown outspends most of the other districts on per pupil spending. The only real solution, which will never happen around here, is a county school district--a level playing field.

Rather than spending time and precious energy recruiting students back to Youngstown schools by saying the "new schools aren't any better" it would seem to make more sense to do all you can to improve the traditional public schools. The issue is not how many have left as much as why so many are leaving. Parents often know when a school isn't working for their child, and they are simply looking for an alternative that might work (ie. hope).

When children come home and complain about feeling uncomfortable and unsafe walking to school or on their bus or in their school the parents take action and move them to a school they can feel safe in. Quality of education is not everything. Safety First, Education Second.

I read this article, and I guess I need more information to judge the conclusions made here..

What is Youngstown's per-puil spending?
(this could go two ways to include instruction-only.. or to also include capital costs..)

What is the avg. charter school per-pupil spending?
(does the state or district pay this?)

What is the avg. school voucher cost?
(does the state or district pay this?)

Hypothetical:

The district "lost" 3,876 students, and they may lose total state revenue in the long term, but very slowly because of the way the state formula works.. this won't be a shock to the system... and in the short-term there should actually be rising per-pupil allocations.

But the district is still collecting revenue locally as if it still has the 3,876 students, and so the actual money in the Youngstown budget (district+state) should show more funding per student!

Anyway money does not equal effectiveness or higher performance though, and we should always remember this.. :)

Chareter schools are most likely taking the more violent and/or troubled students. Those seeking a true education are undoubtedly moving to the suburban schools-public and parochial. Just as Vindy said-when the children don't feel safe nothing else matters.
Now that Austintown has opened it's doors, look for that number to increase

OK, I'm not an accountant, or a school treasurer, but according to my calculations from the article above, only about 30 percent of the money leaving ycsd is going to open enrollment and voucher programs. Therefore, the balance (about 16 million) is going to charter schools in Youngstown. It is true and can be verified on www.ode.state.oh.us that Youngstown public schools outperform charter schools on the state report card. So why do parents send their kids elswhere in the city? The theory that the charter schools take the worse behavior problem kids is false. The charter schools can pick and choose who they keep, even if they (by law) must offer enrollment without preference to student ability or other factors. Same is true for the districts offering open enrollment. By law, if they are accepting public funds, enrollment acceptance must be arbitrary or on a first come first serve basis. Why, then do districts offering open enrollment to city students require applications? Some districts have stated publicly to their residents that they will only take the "best applicants" - which is totally illegal, but it's so much money for them, and it's what the taxpayers want to hear & the voters will accept. So the problem is twofold. I don't begrudge anyone the opportunity to have their children educated in a "better" school if it is available to them; therefore, that 6 million or so deserves to go with those kids, but there is no excuse for this state to continue to throw away good money after bad - public tax dollars hard earned by residents of Youngstown - to charter schools that have proven year after year to not perform as well as the city schools. They should all be closed and the kids return to ycsd - then, with all the money back where it belongs, the board & Dr. Webb can no longer cry poor and use it as an excuse to not expel the students that disrupt the process for those who are trying to learn because they need every dollar for every kid, and the parents who support those efforts don't have to feel their kids are ignored, endangered and undereducated. Make no mistake, if the teachers in Youngstown were placed in Austintown, Canfield or Poland, their scores would only go up - guaranteed! That is a hypothesis though that will never get the opportunity to be proven. Residents of Youngstown, keep your eye on the ball, focus on the real problem - not the teachers - discipline, and discipline must be maintained from the top down. Let's also start being more vocal with our state assembly to get cracking on the legislation to close charter schools that don't perform - not just allow them to play "pass the charter" and remain open on Youngstown's dime.

Oh, and here's another thought on creative management of limited funds. While the Youngstown City schools board of education is required by law to transport kids attending charter schools, is there anything in the law that states it has to be to their convenience? Let's be realistic - charter schools take ycsd money, ycsd - send one bus per school to the charters. Parent's have your kids ready for the bus at 5:12am tomorrow - still want to send your kid there?

Bear in mind that the numbers reported do not include students who transfer to non-open enrollment districts - like Austintown for the time being. That might account for more students who are no longer appearing on the Youngstown rolls.

My children have been attending a Youngstown public school (after there Catholic school Closed) Thank God next year I send them somewhere other than Youngstown. This is just so overwhelming my kids are high honor roll students who never get into trouble. They hate their school. They tell me that some kids are just so bad and descructfull, this was a brand new school, and some children have just destroyed it. They wreck the bathrooms totally, not just minor stuff either, gross stuff. They bully other children if they tell what they did, the famous saying goes snitches get stitches. They bus rides are another problem. They teachers spend so much time dealing with problems in the class rooms they other children are not getting taught like they should. It is so unfair my children can't go to the bathroom when they need to because you have to go at certain times so you are supervised for what? The bathrooms are being abused anyway. They can't talk at lunch or sit where they want , and there is no recess because they cannot control the children. Now come on kids need to run and play and have some exercise time. Is this school or a prison? Come on Youngstown Schools no wonder parents are taking there children out of there. Come on parents raise you children with some respect for others and for property, if these children are doing this at school what are they doing at home, how do they live at home. All this is just so unacceptable, it seems the money has never been spent wisely, and you wonder why students what to leave. Parents take control of your lives and children, teach them some respect. Again good people have to pay for what the bad parents teach their children, this is always the case in this world and it is not fair. We are tired of having all people and students suffer because of the bad ones, how about some rewards for the good ones!!! Youngstown schools have caused alot of this on there own, for not spending the tax dollars on the right things, such as aides to help at lunches and the class rooms, instead lets give them all another raise to put the money in their bank accounts heck with the school and the children. Youngstown your on your own. DEAL WITH !!!!!!!

My grandson started his first year of school (Kindergarten) with YSD and has has nothing but problems. Not only is he a minority, but is bullied because of this, has items stolen from him on a DAILY basis (hats, gloves, backpack), snack money stolen from him by bullies, he has been punched and beaten up on the school bus by older students, and in addition to this and HE has been segregated from the rest of the class for defending himself. HE IS IN KINDERGARTEN!!
As a result, he already HATES going to school...already and he is ONLY in Kindergarten. He has manners, is polite, and repsects his elders....yes, he has been raised properly. His misfortune is where he lives.

He is not the only student in his class that has these problems at school. I say get rid of those students that cannot "act properly" in school. I feel if your children cannot "behave" at school, they should be removed and the parents penalized or fined....perhaps forward the responsibility to the parents to home school them and be held accountable!

When blacks who can afford it send their children to other schools from a predominately black public school then you know that things are bad. The Youngstown school system needs a major overhaul before it totally self destructs.

Interestingly, an article on page B3 (local section) of today's paper (Sunday, Jan. 25) exposes the two-faced nature of the state's voucher program.

The Cincinnati Enquirer published its own investigation Saturday, having used public record requests for the scores of 2,900 pupils who used Ed Choice vouchers. Their analysis shows that many of these pupils fail the standardized tests, but that the private schools they attend do not face the same consequences as their public school peers.
Quote:
"The state pays [a scholarship] up to $4,500. for each elementary pupil and up to $5,300. per high school student using "Ed Choice" vouchers" which allow public school students to attend private or religious schools.

"Unlike their private school classmates, those pupils must take the same standardized tests as public school pupils.
BUT OFFICIALS DON'T TRACK WHETHER THEY PASS THEM," Scott Blake, spokesman for the Ohio Department of Education, said. Public school pupils achievement levels are tracked yearly by the state.

"Blake said the program's success should not be measured by test scores, but by whether it gives parents more choices for education.

He also questioned how a private school's effect on a pupil's test scores could be evaluated if a pupil has attended only for a short time.

'It's not something that happens overnight,' he said.
HOWEVER, THE STATE'S EVALUATIONS OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS DO INCLUDE THE SCORES OF FIRST YEARS TRANSFER STUDENTS TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS."

Advocates of tracking the scores of private school voucher students in the same way public school students' scores are tracked argue that such data could be used to improve the accountability of such a taxpayer-funded program and to evaluate its success.

"If we have these programs that are publicly funded and are being touted as a way to give kids an opportunity, I think it's important to see how these kids are doing," said Piet van Lier, senior researcher at ...Policy Matters Ohio. "Is it giving us a bang for our buck for taxpayer dollars?

not only will they never get back those students who have left, the problem will only get worse....with a declining city population and more and more schools going to open enrollment, it looks as though the city schools will continue to decline, but look at the bright side....they passed their levy

The levy was passed only because many people who don't have to pay property taxes voted for it - and as was evident then and is clearer now - it wasn't for enough money in the first place.

Many of the open enrollment students will get booted out of the other school systems and charter schools absolutely pick and choose who they take. The charter schools syphon off the highest performing students from the public schools. Some day the only public city schools will be special ed.

Kids should feel safe and secure while at school. Otherwise they are not going to be able to concentrate on learning. Instead of spending money on their study and mailings, they should be hiring teacher aids and recruiting parent volunteers to help keep down disruptions and bullying. If you don't address the problem of WHY the students are leaving, you are not going to retain the rest nor encourage any to return.

I canmake a comment because i work in one of the city schools. I have two kids in the youngstown city schools. Our school is a beautiful school with great teachers. Both of my kids are always on honorroll and are never in touble. I am very involved on a day to day basis in the school. I will be the first to say our school is over crowded. The building was built for k thru fourth and we are holding k thru sixth. I think that is rediculious. And over crowding is one of the reasons people are leaving. Some of the staff pay more attention to the kids that are always in trouble rather then rewarding the kids that are not. My husband is a cop for the city sso we have to live here, so i do feel my kids should attend the city schools. It would be pointless for me to drive to another city for my kids to go to school when i live a few minutes from their school and we have to live in the city. Somthing does have to change though. I believe it starts in the home. If kids are not tought manners they will not use them. If they are tought to be violent, they will be. We ca not point the finger at the teachers and the board, everyone must take the blame. I see so amny under privilaged kids in our school and it is sad. Is it their fault? That is the question. Is a first grader that comes to school with their home work not done, ripped cloths, and no manners to blame. No not at that age. People should not judge the kids in the youngstown city schools until they know where they are coming from. So yes i do think we need change, but not all of our kids are bad. They need guidance. I pack extra food and my kids's lunches everyday because i am there at lunch and i see these kids beg my kids for food and it's sad. Every school has their problems. I have family in the austintown schools, canfield schools, and youngstown. They all have their problems.I do feel more needs to be done in the schools when there are repeat offenders maybe if somthing was done their parents would wake up!

Anyone who doesn't like the levy should look after their money by investigating the amounts given away to charter schools with scores lower than those of the city schools.
The online version of this article does not include a chart given with some exact amounts. (You can see it on the Digital version.)

Here are some numbers: Eagle Heights, $5,940,255.00
Life Skills Center, $1,613,825.
Youngstown Academy of Excellence, $1,613,825.00
I wish I knew the rest.

If these dollars were not wasted, or the additional dollars spent to transport these students, the fiscal problems of the Youngstown City Schools would be solved.

So would many of the academic problems. After attending charter schools, students return to YCS already behind in skills. (None of the schools offers a high school curriculum. Life Skills Center offers only a G.E.D. So students ultimately return to YCS or one of our other local school districts for high school.

Many parents have said that public schools need discipline of students who make such a disruption of class that others students can't learn. You can't put more into a child's mind than that child can learn and many public schools are pressured to teach more subjects while children are not learning. It is said today when you see an overall view of schools in peril is why learning is in disarray.