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Some Poland residents oppose apartments, cite congestion

Published: Mon, April 27, 2009 @ 12:10 a.m.

By Denise Dick

The developer is seeking a zone change to allow the apartments.

POLAND — Some residents oppose a developer’s plan to build four six-plex apartment buildings between East McKinley Way and Marion Drive.

The village’s planning committee will entertain a request at a 7 p.m. Tuesday meeting in village hall to change the zoning on the 2.5-acre parcel at 126 E. McKinley Way to allow apartments.

“I don’t think that it’s a good idea for them to put 24 apartments back in one two-acre plot,” said Sue Hatala, who has lived on Marion, abutting the lot, for 30 years.

It’s difficult enough trying to get out of Marion onto McKinley. If that many more people move in, it will make it even more so, she said.

The plan was proposed by Singer Homes and Tim Clayton, a township resident, who is called a member of the company in paperwork filed with the village. Clayton couldn’t be reached.

Plans submitted to the village show four six-plex apartment buildings and six carriage houses, or garages. Evergreen trees rim the perimeter and sidewalks connect the buildings.

A public hearing for a variance to increase the square footage limit for the building’s ground floor area from 3,000 to 4,000 was scheduled for later this week but was canceled.

Richard Ames, village zoning administrator, said the developer plans 1,000-square-foot apartments.

Hatala also worries about the possibility of water problems for the apartment residents. There’s a natural slope to the land, she said.

Another Marion resident, Norma Hazelbaker, doesn’t like the idea either.

She says the backyard is one of the reasons she bought her house. The lot where the apartments would be abuts the rear of her property.

Her neighbor, Howard Hallas, agrees.

“I think I can speak for just about all of the neighbors,” he said. “We’re not for it.”

There’s not much wooded land left in the village and he thinks what’s left should remain.

“We enjoy seeing the deer and the other wildlife that come on to our property,” Hallas said.


1aeparish(669 comments)posted 7 years, 2 months ago

Would it be possible to put a stoplight there if it's just "so difficult?"

And as long as they aren't letting trash move into the apartments, who cares?

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2HundredReasons(31 comments)posted 7 years, 2 months ago

No more traffic lights. Or, at least time them better.

As far as "trash" moving in... that's a pretty insulting comment to both apartment owner and tenant. Who is to say what is trash, and what standards do you use to define it? Best to keep those comments to yourself, unless you are directly involved. Otherwise, you come across looking provincial.

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3Red(1 comment)posted 7 years, 2 months ago

foxtrot- where do you live??? I lived on Mckinley Way, right in front of where they want to put these apartments. These people have very valid concerns. As for it creating jobs, only for a short time will any jobs be created. and property taxes?? this is Poland-please! While I did move, some people are not able to just move at the drop of a hat. I know from personal experience that when they tried to do this several years ago and started to mow down the field, my basement began to flood. It had NEVER been a problem before. There is no way to put another red light there, and traffic will get worse than it already is. The side streets have been a safe place to raise a family, if you add that many more cars, you are asking for trouble. Lastly, developers viable projects?? if that means getting rid of every tree and empty piece of land where any animals might be able to live, then YES, i am very much against it!!! I hear people complain when there are deer or any other creature in their yard? where are they supposed to go? we need to leave them someplace. There are SO many homes for sale, why do we need to keep building more?

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4valleypoboy(224 comments)posted 7 years, 2 months ago

If all existing structures age and depreciate, we should immediately proceed to knock down all older and historic properties. This fallacy of only more and more building equals progress is not sustainable and your concept that as long as there's any green space left anywhere we are not "done" building just defies reason. Please stay in your unzoned township and I sincerely hope a junkyard moves in right next door to you.

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5ShaggyLittle(6 comments)posted 7 years, 2 months ago

I live in the area, and like most of my neighbors, I try to keep my property attractive, clean, and neatly groomed. A house adjacent to me became a rental 3 years ago. For the past 3 years it was rented and no attempt to improve or beautify the property was ever made. The opposite happened. It deteriorated. Renters have no incentive to improve where they live. I don't blame them - I was a renter for many years, and part of the appeal is that you don't have to concern yourself with the outside of your building. Great for them - bad for the neighboring homes. The lot concerned is not zoned for this type of dwelling. Perhaps "Foxtrot", who commented above, could use Google Earth to find a plot of green space in the area that IS zoned for apartments and the developer could set up shop there instead. Zoning is in place for a reason. For instance, I would love to see new businesses move into our area, but I don't want a factory or a "Cheap Smokes" store built smack in the middle of a quiet neighborhood. This is an example of why we have zoning, and why we should respect it. If I have to get variance and pay a fee just to build a small shed on my property, how can they throw up a 24 unit complex (does that mean 48+ parking spots?) a few lots away?

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6justthefacts(18 comments)posted 7 years, 2 months ago

What is left out of the article is the fact that the "street" which would be used for entry into the proposed complex is acutally little more than a path at the end of a dead end street. The path leads to an elementary school and playground. Kids use this path to walk and ride bikes to and from school and to other locations throughout the village. Since the path is not used for automobile traffic now, the kids and other pedestrians will be at risk.

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7gmann415(268 comments)posted 7 years, 2 months ago

commom poland residents, get your heads out of your a$$es and deal with it. the apartments will be a good boost for the city and township. and to those of you who want to believe that only trash lives in apartments, you are wrong. i,ve seen some really nice apartment with real nice and well kept landscape. if you dont like it take your millions and move elsewhere.

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8justthefacts(18 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

The neighborhood is not composed of millionaires. It is made up of working class families and retirees. All of the residents purchased their homes in an area that was zoned R1. The developer is the one who purchased what he knew was R1 land and wants to make the change.

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9justthefacts(18 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

A correction to my earlier post. The developer is not the owner of the property. The owner of the property also owns a home near the proposed site and has been trying to sell his home for some time.

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10tr7400(3 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

I own property on 170 next to the fire station (near Dobbins Rd.) and have been looking for a developer interested in developing this property. Should this plan not work out maybe this site can be utilized. This property is only zoned residential and a zoning change would be required. Interested? e-mail me at tr1964@zoominternet.net

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11valleypoboy(224 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

The project in question is no where near where I live. However, the project will lower my property value for one simple reason. As cited above, zoning exists for a reason. If our local officials are willing to gut regulations so one guy can make a quick buck, THAT is what will lower property values. Several people who spoke at the hearing noted they had looked at numerous homes and selected their property based on the idea that only single family homes could be in the area. When I have purchased homes in the past, I research not only what is around me but what might be. Zoning provides the basis of that decision.

I agree that some of the comments about "those people" who rent are offensive and small-minded. I would be more proud of my area if that attitude were not so prevalent. However, the real bottom line is that there are plenty of rental places available (ask people who own units almost anywhere around here) and a number of people purchased their property with the right to assume no significant changes would be made without their agreement.

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12justthefacts(18 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

The people who "bought their house right off of RT 224" are used to a quiet neighborhood. From his/her comments, I would think that "lombardo"has never visited our great neighborhood as his/her remarks are way off target. I live in this neighborhood and can tell you that we residents, the voters and taxpayers, are all against this project. The only ones for it are the ones that will make big $$. I ask what "lombardo" stands to gain from this project?? BTW, there are several apartments for rent within 1 or 2 miles from the proposed site.

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13gmann415(268 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

i,ve heard you poland crybabys cry about so many reasons as to why these apartments shouldnt be built. ive even heard about the wild life. well heres a question if wild life is your reasin to complain. why was tuscany estates built. there was alot of woods there for wild life. and what about all of the other property that is being used for building $380,000.00 houses. but that ok right. you poland people got your heads stuck so far up your @sses it isnt funny. and dont sit there and act like you are all to good and your kids are the greates, cuz remembe hearing and seeing plenty of times about underage drinking and also drug bust,s in the high school. so get off of your high horse and stop acting like your town and kids are better than anyone elses. thank you.

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14valleypoboy(224 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

Maybe you should have payed attention in school. First, you'd be able to spell and second, you would understand the issues from more than a 3rd grade level.

Building is NOT progress - repeat after me
Building is NOT progress

Wake up!

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15gmann415(268 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

thank you lombardo. okay now for you valleypoboy, what i,ve said is true. however yes i did spell afew words incorrectly. however it doesnt take a brain surgeon to understand what i was saying. and no im not putting this on a 3rd graders level. that would be those crying about it and thinking of every reason why these apartments shouldnt be built. building would be progress. i can name a few reasons how it would benifit the city and the township. 1) property tax, 2) income tax,3) work for contractors, 4) work for landscapers. seems like more reason then what you crybabys can come up with. and i see you still cant defend the fact that you all want to cry about wild life but yet who tried to keep tuscany estates or anyother estates from being built? and yes what i said is true about all the little goodie two shoes, ive seen and can remember of 3 drug busts in the school. and i can remember atleast 7 or 8 underage drinking busts. so quit acting like you are all two good to have new people move into your little click community.

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16gmann415(268 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

opps almost forgot valleypoboy, if you are so great and rich why dont you just buy the property. why dont all of you crybabys put your riches together and buy it up. aww what you cant afford it? well then keep ypur traps shut and deal with it. if you dont like it move. im serious move. i mean thats what my parents did if the felt the area was getting bad. i know of four people who live in poland and one of those people live in tusany estates he grew up in youngstown in the kimmel brooks and as well as every family who lived there, when the thugs moved in they moved out.

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17gmann415(268 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

aww look at that mr.valleypoboy couldnt defend anything that was said. whats the matter are you crying? i feel so bad for you, get over it. just pray and hope the owner of these apartments doesnt decide to make them section8. i think he should make them section8. why not? look at everyone losing there houses. alot of people cant even afford rent.wouldnt it just burn your snotty little @sses to have section8 in your back yard. how bout if you got some thugs straight out of east lake to move in there? see having apartments in your back yard isnt so bad. we all know you are all crying only because your afraid of new people.

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18ShaggyLittle(6 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

The validity of zoning was established in a landmark Supreme Court decision in 1926, Euclid v. Ambler Realty Co.,3 in which it was determined that the exclusionary nature of zoning was appropriate and in the public interest as a means to reduce nuisances, and as such overrides the interests of individual property owners. This case almost by itself guaranteed the validity of zoning as a rightful use of the state's police power, and led to its importance as the most significant tool of land use, and of planning, yet devised. The zone plan, by comprehensively districting the whole territory of the city and finding ample space and appropriate territory tor each type of use, is decidedly more just, intelligent, and reasonable than the system, if system it can be called, of spotty ordinances and uncertain litigations about the definition of a nuisance.

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19aeparish(669 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

Valleypoboy, that Poland education sure did you some good. Maybe if you would have paid attention yourself, you'd be able to spell paid correctly...

Spelling Nazi strikes again!

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20gmann415(268 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

so what is this all about then? is it that the people of poland are afraid to have section 8? everyone has a right to fair housing. it doest matter where at. it doesnt matter if its section 8 or if they are a well to do single person. as i said before, get your heads out of your @sses and quit thinking you are all better than everyone else. poland has its own share of problems. such as the drug busts within the school and underage drinking parties. and once again, it doeasnt matter where the person comes from or the side of town they come from. that doesnt make them bad people. would my friend Bill be a bad person because he grew up in the kimmel brooks? he is now 57y.o and lives in tuscany estates.

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21JMac(1 comment)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

People Yompton have always had a negative air when it came to talking about people from Poland, and it really shows....what is wrong with a town wanting to keep it's standards high??? The residents of this area, which is one of the oldest in the county (town one range one for any of you in youngstown who actually paid attention in history class) should have every right to keep the standard high, keep the history, and keep certain groups of housing out (section8). The people who live in this section of the community are steelworkers, truck drivers, teachers, construction workers...no different from many of the posters above. The main difference is that many of them chose a better lifestyle, worked their tails off, and made it happen for themselves. They can't just "pick up and move" if they don't what is going in, but they can fight to keep things out. I would applaud the village of Poland if the zoning board voted this project down.

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22justthefacts(18 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

Many of these posts consist of bitter feelings and emotions toward people who live in Poland. This issue does not pertain to the township; it is about the village. No one has said anything about Poland kids or people being better than anyone else. Read the article and posts about the cabaret in Austintown. These people are told they should expect these problems because they bought homes in an area zoned commercial. Why should the people of this Poland neighborhood (who bought their homes based on the property being zoned R1) be blamed for wanted to keep the property zoned as it is and trying to keep their neighborhood as it is? Don't forget the grounds to the elementary school are about 10 feet from the entrance to this proposed site.

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23justthefacts(18 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

I disagree with a few statements made by lombardo. First, many homes are larger than his 1,000 - 1700 square foot generalization. Many residents have chosen to add on to their homes instead of moving. The distance to the school is a concern for safety as the increase in traffic on the path (proposed street) is a danger to those walking to school as well as those using the playground. The bus drives by the path 2 times every day, so saving on busing is not an issue. I have been a reader on vindy.com for a few years, but have not posted until this article as it pertains to my neighborhood. lombardo is also new to posting and seems to have all the answers to this proposal. This is also his/her first (and only) article to post on. Again, I do wonder what his/her interest is. By the way my posts have not included references to section 8 housing as the developer was kind enough to point out at the meeting that he would be very selective as to who would be tennants. We (those opposing) thought that was against the law, but he must know better. He wouldn't just say that so the zoning change is approved, would he??

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24justthefacts(18 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

The average square footage for the homes on the even side of Marion is 1495. The average for all homes on Marion is 1652. The average for the bottom of Edna (intersects the "path") is 1821. The average would increase as you travel up Edna and over to Nesbitt and Diana (one really large home just sold there). These are not 1000 square foot apartments.

Who owns the private property? You? The residents who currently reside on Marion and Edna?

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25gmann415(268 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

to everyone who is agains this project, put your up money and buy the property, or move out, or SHUT THE HELL UP AND DEAL WITH IT. it would be very illegal for a town or a township to zone against FAIR HOUSING.

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26gmann415(268 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

oh by the way, to all of those poland resident who think they and their kids are so much better than everyone else. read the may.7, news paper. i,ve read that a poland and canfield boy was arrested for herion and other drugs. oh yeah and i forgot. still no one can defend the fact that poland has had drug raids in the school that has turned up drugs. and no one can defend the fact that poland has had underage drinking busts. so,how can you all feel that you are better than others. your not. and most of all get your noses out of your @sses, your sh*t does stink.

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27ShaggyLittle(6 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

Lombardo says "The property in question is too close to RT224 for single-family homes to be viable." What? My home is 40 ft from 224 and it seems plenty viable to me.
And while Gmann loves his drug bust stories, the actions of a few delinquent teens are not relevant to this issue, which is a change in zoning that would most likely devalue the homes in the neighborhood. They are not mansions, they are simply homes. But any home, no matter where it is located, is the most significant financial investment most people will make in their lives, and the desire to protect that investment seems like a natural, justified reaction.

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28gmann415(268 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

well ysugrad you may be right apartments may lower the valu of a house. but what about all of the drug bust,s within the school,s what about the underage drinking parties, what about all the highschool boys who dress like thugs or as they would say wannabees, what about all the girls who dress like tramps. no one can seem to defend this. why because its true. all poland is is a bunch of cry babies. and all they do is cover up all of their problems behind $400,000.00 houses. again read the may 7th paper. 3 kids one from the great poland the other from wonderfull canfield and the other from boardman. guess this punk was a board man to get caught up with two yuppies from the greatest places in the valley.

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29ShaggyLittle(6 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

Gmann has insight into this issue that the rest of us have somehow missed. Let me see if I can summarize: some teens in Poland, Canfield and Boardman dress funny and experiment with drugs - and that doesn't happen anywhere else in America, I'm sure. But if we change the zoning in Poland Village and build 24 apartments, the kids will behave and the property values in Poland will go up. Yes, it's so clear to me now. How did we miss this solution? Seems like your comments would be more appropriate in the thread for that "drug bust" story in the May 7th paper that you keep referring to. This particular column is about zoning changes.

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30gmann415(268 comments)posted 7 years, 1 month ago

shaggy, i am just letting these poland crybabys know that there little village, town or township is no better than anyother. they got the same problems as everyother city. but they want to act like they dont. they act like they are too good to have apartments. last time i went thru poland i,ve seen apartments. so what is the big deal of new ones being built. oh i forgot its not the apartments being built that bothers them. what does bother them is that it may become section8.

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31giselle(1 comment)posted 6 years, 11 months ago

What I don't understand is why people who don't live anywhere near the area in question are commenting on this anyway?!?

Most people move to Poland because of the Zoning! Why is that so difficult to understand? It doesn't mean people in Poland are better or worse than anyone else. We just want to live in a zoned area. If you don't like zoning, don't move to Poland and leave us alone!

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