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Piercings keep husband of student out of dances



Published: Fri, November 14, 2008 @ 12:06 a.m.

photo

Casey (19) and Brittney (17) Engstrom of Hubbard are not permitted to go to her school dances together.

By John W. Goodwin Jr.

HUBBARD — Five pieces of facial jewelry may be all that is stopping a high school senior from attending any school dances with the 19-year-old man she recently married.

Casey Engstrom, 19, graduated from Hubbard High School in 2007. He has since married Brittany, 17, who is still a senior at the high school. The young couple now lives a stone’s throw away from the high school with Casey Engstrom’s grandmother, but Casey Engstrom will not be permitted to attend any school dances with his new wife. Casey Engstrom has been informed that he is banned from such school functions because of skin-stretching jewelry in his lip and ears.

Though Casey Engstrom, who also is his wife’s guardian because she is still a minor, discussed the couple’s feelings about the school’s decision, Brittany Engstrom chose not to speak to The Vindicator and deferred comment to her husband.

Casey Engstrom said the recent ban from school dances is not the first time his appearance has been called into question by school officials. He said he was forced to remove red streaks and highlights from his hair before attending his own graduation in 2007.

Brittany Engstrom “wondered how things were going to work out now this year with homecoming, prom and Hubbard’s strict dress code,” Casey Engstrom said.

The dress code in the student handbook states that “wearing pierced jewelry on any other body part than the ear, such as nose, eyebrows, lips and tongue are not permitted.”

Casey Engstrom, though no longer bound by the student dress code, spoke to school officials to see if an understanding could be reached on the jewelry that would allow him to escort his wife to the school dances. He offered to remove the jewelry.

Superintendent Richard Buchenic said Brittany Engstrom approached school officials earlier in the year to see if her husband could escort her to school dances and functions.

Buchenic said the school will stand firm on its decision not to allow Casey Engstrom to attend any school dances because of health reasons.

The skin-stretching pieces would leave an open hole in the lip if removed, and removing the jewelry “was not acceptable because fluids could still come out, and I do not want to subject our students to those fluids,” he said.

Buchenic said students or any other person would be held to the same standard being imposed on the Engstroms. He said Casey Engstrom will not be permitted to attend those school functions even if the hole in his lip is completely plugged.

Buchenic said the school will uphold its obligation to provide Brittany Engstrom with an education but is not obligated to allow her to attend dances with any particular escort.

“She chose to get married, so this is her decision. Going to dances is a privilege, not a right,” Buchenic said. “She could still attend [the dances] with friends.”

Casey Engstrom said Buchenic, during their meeting, defined him as living an “alternative” lifestyle.

“That offended me,” he said. “I live with my wife and two cats. How alternative is my lifestyle?”

Casey Engstrom has two piercings and a stretching piece in his lip as well as skin-stretching pieces in both ears. Casey Engstrom, who considers himself a “humanist” religiously, said there are religious aspects to the practice.

“I stretched my lip because I always thought it to be an interesting thing to see on a person. Once I tried it, I discovered it requires discipline. I like the discipline,” he said.

“This practice has been done worldwide. It’s outrageous that it’s still being discriminated against.”


Comments

1Tugboat(759 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Funny that a feature article in today's edition is about teaching "tolerance" to pupils in Girard . What a strange land.

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2DoctorGonzo(728 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Dude needs to be practicing meaningful employment and career advancement and put "humanism" on the back burner. You are 19, you live with your grandmother, you are married, and you live in a poor economic region. What are the odds of finding gainful employment with bolts in your face?
I am all for people expressing themselves but reality has to set in sometime.
Of course, if the kid is already earning 40-50k a year at a going concern, then I am wrong admittedly.

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3paulydel(1328 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

All I can say is I side with the school and DoctorGonzo. It is just plain stupid to disfigure yourself that way. He has the right to do that and the school has the right to refuse entry and I couldn't in good concience hire this guy to wait on the public.

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4JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

A series of questionable decisions on his part, to be certain. I like that he doesn't consider the fact that he and his 17 year old wife are trying to gain admittance to high school dances is "alternative" to the norm...I'm sure couple's counselors across the country deal with that specific issue all the time.

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5dmets(575 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Why is a 17 years GIRL even married? Where are her parents at?

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6erasmus(3 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

oh, by the way dr. gonzo, in your neat and tidy assessment of this kid's life, you forgot to mention that his mother was slaughtered by ken biros.

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7nanaj1(15 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I think Hubbard Schools should change a few rules..The kid was willing to remove the piercings.

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8DoctorGonzo(728 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Did I forget to mention that this kid's mother was slaughtered by Ken Biros.

I didn't give an assessment, just advice. Free advice on a public website. I think it was good advice since the kid is only 19 and doesn't really know anything about the world yet. I never mentioned his upbringing except that he lives with his grandmother. I never questioned his parents or his character. Stating that someone should take the bolts out of his/her face if he/she wants a decent job does not sound horrible to me. That sounds logical.
You braying moron remedial ignorant slow-witted blind pig. Go back to watching televison or surfing the internet for your friends at mysapce and read the damn post and think about it before you write things that depict no cognizant thought whatsoever.
Your weak thoughts and weaker personality make want to puke. You are everything that's wrong with this country. Your demented perception is your reality and your brain capacity is neanderthal in nature. You thought you would would be a real stand up guy and bring up facts that have nothing whatsoever to do with what I wrote. You couldn't wait to get out that fact about his mother right?
Go sit in your chair and sulk because you are at the bottom of this already bottom heavy society. Pig.

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9zieg2003(82 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Since when can 17 year olds get married? That's a divorce waiting to happen. If he agreed to take out the piercings what point does the school make talking about "fluids". I mean come on isn't like he's going around spitting and bleeding on people.

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10erasmus(3 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

wow gonzo! the subtext, intimation and snark of my comment went WAY over your head. at least now i'm aware of exactly how much credence i should give your posts. i must admit however, that your assumptions about me (anyone see a pattern here?) gave me a hearty chuckle.

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11KK(1 comment)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

At issue here is the fact that the school is, in fact, a public institution, funded publicly, by taxpayers. As such, it has absolutely no prerogative to determine what is appropriate. Denying access to a former student due to physical appearance on the basis of "Health Concerns" is probably the flimsiest most stupid argument I have heard recently. Lets say a student wanted to take a date who had AIDs to her dance. Would that person be disallowed entry? Nope. Not going to happen. This is just an example of a school district trying to exert control over the behavior of its community in a way that is not in standing with its public duties or responsibilities and misapplying the only duty it has in this situation, "public health". Who elected these clowns? Let us hope the mistake is not repeated. Their behavior is not in keeping with what I would expect from a free country.

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12scythemantis(1 comment)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Doctorgonzo - WOW. Where in the world did that torrent of verbal abuse come from? I don't see anybody saying anything that you could have rationally taken as an insult, and certainly not enough for you to pull out every cliché character attack in the book. A neanderthal? Everything wrong with this country?

I'd be much more afraid to live in a country full of people like yourself, who blow such a melodramatic fuse at the most harmless disagreement. You need counseling if you can get that angry over something so trivial on the internet.

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13SpacePunk(1 comment)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

It's very 'family values' of them to not allow a woman to bring her husband to a dance.

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14vinospizza(1 comment)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

"removing the jewelry “was not acceptable because fluids could still come out, and I do not want to subject our students to those fluids,” he said."

Do they think he will be rubbing his face on random students or something?

"Buchenic said the school will uphold its obligation to provide Brittany Engstrom with an education"

Does he want an award for that?

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15srfchf(1 comment)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I think the school is wrong for restricting these two from attending functions. The school has set a tough standard to enforce. What if a parent want to volunteer in their child's class or sporting event? Is the school going to hold them to the standards that this young man? If the school wants to enforce policy on its students then that is fine. But when comes to the public at large they need to shut their mouths and deal with it. The piercings are not the true issue. The fact that she is married is.

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16metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

The fact that he grdauted s one problem for them. He would sjut eb a visotrs so the dress code can not really e enforced. if your parets came to the office as a visitor they could not tell them to leave based o nwhat they loo klike or they are wearing unless t is really bad. I thnk they oversteped their bounds here

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17Forrest(1 comment)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Stupid is as stupid does...

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18metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

so stupid does not mean you did anythign wrng. that stil gives them no right to do what they did. It was his choice wasn't it?

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19djbrandy200(1 comment)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

If he has offered to take out the piercings and they still won't let him attend, then it sounds like discrimination against him. As her guardian, he has the right to make sure that she is in a safe enviornment. I say if he threatens to sue, they will probably lighten up, esp. since she only has a little over a semester left. At my son's high school, piercings are allowed, but you can't dye your hair purple or green, etc. I think that the schools should focus more on what the kids are learning rather than what they are wearing. If a kid does do something a little out-there, the novelty wears off rather quickly. It's not as distracting as the school leads you to believe. The only ones distracted by this kind of stuff are close minded individuals that I don't want teaching my kids anyway.

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20snidelywhiplash(1 comment)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

17 year olds getting married? Outrageous!

Next they'll be getting pregnant AND married. And embarrassing their candidate-for-public-office parent(s)!

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21metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Not that this is unheard of. In other countres it is normal. only in our county it is ot right. In the midle east ofr instance there are 13 years old forced into being married to 40 year old guys. to them it is perfectly normal. ourr coulture say it is wrong but still some do anyways. It is there choice to do so,why should the goverment tell them no?

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22instantcoma(1 comment)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Well. Well. Well. Just to inform some of you who clearly are either close minded or just ignorant, but in today's society more and more "extreme" things have become acceptable.

For example, I began stretching my ears when I was about 20. When I was 21 I joined the Army National Guard, so I had to take my piercings out. Soon after getting out of all my training I was deployed to Iraq. After returning from Iraq I began stretching my ears back out. I am still currently in the National Guard and work for them as a civilian also. When I'm in uniform I take my piercings out, but as a civilian I wear them. My superiors may joke around because they do not understand why I did it, but they know that it does not inhibit my work as a soldier or civilian.

Why do people have to be critics on what a person does to their body or even live their life? Who gives them this right? Who are they to judge? I don't judge people because the things the do, because I know that when it comes down to it everyone does something in their life that is subject to scrutiny.

When I was growing up my parents always told me to be myself, even if they didn't agree with what I did.

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23metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

And onw the schoo theels us the same thing. the more independent tenns get the more some try to control it. seems to me some jsut don't like the freedom young people have to dress the way they want.

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24TXJenny(1 comment)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I think he should withdraw his wife from ps and homeschool her. Then she won't have to worry about whether or not her husband is allowed to accompany her to a school function. :D

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25DoctorGonzo(728 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I do need couseling. Things always go WAY over my head. I don't know how much credence I can give my posts either. I am scared that I might live in a country full of people like me. I am melodramatic. Snark. Pattern.

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26londubh(1 comment)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

So, if you want to get technical... both Oxford and Merriam-Webster define Jewelry (or Jewellry, as the brits spell it) as made of precious metals and/or jewels/gems, worn for personal adornment.

That means that, technically, a base metal, such as stainless steel is not jewelry, even if it is worn for personal adornment. Further, anything made of plastic worn for a medical purpose is clearly not jewelry (not even metal, much less precious metal), and more likely a prosthesis, which Merriam-Webster defines as "an artificial device to replace or augment a missing or impaired part of the body."

You want to fight back? Call the plastic/glass gauging bit a "prosthesis worn for hygienic purposes." After all, the poor boy has a hole in his lip...

OED: http://www.askoxford.com/results/?vie...
M-W: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictio...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictio...

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27dmets(575 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

A dress code is for everyone, including the dates from other schools, or husbands,(which is just not even right at 17 years old). If the students are not allowed to wear that stuff neither are their dates. The students are told that ahead of time.

djbrabdy200: If they even try to sue, it will end up throw out of court.

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28metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

maybe but still remeebr the fact that vistors like your aprents can not be told what to do. A student form anotherschool or someone who graduated is just that a VISTOR! and if he was willing to take them out and they told them to leave then who did wrong their,the school. He tried to do as they siad but someone got a bug up their but and did not want hi mthere for some reason.

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29OldCoot(8 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

The kid says the piercings give him discipline.

Taking that cue, the schools should start using piercings to help students have "discipline".

Oh, that would be called "torture", wouldn't it?

They talk about how wrong disfigurements are in other cultures. So why is voluntary disfigurements acceptable here?

Seems to me that what's "cool" is to look as repulsive as possible and still demand respect.

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30metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

why can't we respect what other people want to wear? Why do we have to be offeneded by it? afetr all it's our opinion vs. his.

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31dmets(575 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Then maybe the school needs to make these dances there school students only. You see, I see this as you give them an inch and they take a mile. I think kids and people who do those kinds of things, excessively are just being rebelous. People can wear whatever they want, just not to the school functions. If they start letting "visitors", as you call them metz87, to these dances and stuff, then they will have let their students. They are just painting it fair all the way across the board.

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32XFilesX(77 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Oh spare me! Sounds like the school is making more out of this than is necessary. If he was willing to remove his piercings, what is the problem? I live in this school district and am very glad my child DID NOT graduate from this school. My child graduated from another area school where there were more important things to worry about.

"Buchenic said students or any other person would be held to the same standard being imposed on the Engstroms."

Like hell. If a child had a parent come into the school or school function who had piercings and/or, there would be no way on this earth the school could make that parent remove their piercings or cover their tattoos. End of story.

"He said Casey Engstrom will not be permitted to attend those school functions even if the hole in his lip is completely plugged."

Hmm, really? Sounds like a child stamping their feet.

"Buchenic said the school will uphold its obligation to provide Brittany Engstrom with an education but is not obligated to allow her to attend dances with any particular escort. “She chose to get married, so this is her decision. Going to dances is a privilege, not a right,” Buchenic said. “She could still attend [the dances] with friends.”

Why thank you Massa! Youse obligated to give me an edge-a-ma-kashun and youse gonna do it? Come on, you pompus ass! Who are you to say whether this girl should be married or not? Marriage is difficult at any age, and at their age the odds are stacked against it. Seems to me instead of promoting a little marital harmony, you are hoping to drive a wedge between them. Trying to see if the dance if more important to her than her husband? Trying to rip a few last school age memories & happiness from her?

Every day children go to school and hate it. They feel like outsiders, they are isolated, they are picked on, they are insecure. In 25 years since I have graduated, I can see that not only has NOTHING changed, it is getting worse. It's no wonder scenarios like school shootings and suicide are rampant. These kids can't go to administration. Administration is made up of the same kids who were bullies, snobs, etc, when THEY were in school.

Leave these kids alone and let them go to the dance! What harm is it? You'd rather they be gang-bangers out raping and robbing?

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33metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

i do tihgn some fot ehse people have control issues. you go to them nad they either tell you to beat it or they don't even pay attention to you. And you wodner why kids deal with things themselves?

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34josho(5 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Wow. Not only am I completely amazed at the hypocrisy coming from the school, but somewhat offended at the narrow-mindedness coming from the comments on this article.

It's possible that I'm biased, being that I am a member of the community of "undisciplined, disfigured, stupid" individuals that you feel so bent on insulting.

For reference, I'm married with a child, and hardly live an "alternative lifestyle". I'm not a drug addict, alcoholic, criminal, sexual deviant, white trash, low-life, high school dropout, or so on and so forth. In fact, I happen to have a Bachelor's degree in Network Management, and currently in the process of obtaining my MBA. Oh yeah, and I'm employed by the government. NASA, to be exact. Actually, Lockheed Martin as a civilian subcontractor for NASA, but I'm sure you get the point. And when I'm not working and studying, I'm at home - taking care of my family. Funny, considering that you can't necessarily say that of a majority of the people out there, even ones who aren't "disfigured". What's their excuse?

Yes, I'm pierced, "gauged" (stretched is the correct term), and tattooed. Piercing jewelry is made from all kinds of materials - silicone, pyrex, acrylic, stainless steel, and even your "precious metals and gems". So if you want to get technical, technically it can fall under the realm of the Oxford definition of jewelry, given the material you use.

Modded people are everywhere, ladies and gents. We're lawyers, business professionals, enlisted in the military, IT professionals, and the list goes on. Why is there such a problem? Some people like to buy $800 Louis Vuitton purses, we happen to like adorning our bodies with things that we find aesthetically pleasing. It's not YOUR opinion of how we look that matters, it's OUR opinion of how we look. It's this kind of closed-minded way of thinking that plagues our society on a regular basis. It's just sad, really.

However, as the rules go, technically with the jewelry in, he would be violating school dress code. Graduate or not, the dress code applies to any guest attending a school function. That's common sense, in any situation. However, if taken literally, removing the jewelry should be perfectly acceptable - as the dress code does state that wearing the jewelry is not allowed. He offered an alternative, which involved removing the jewelry to coincide with the rules, to which they replied with another (frankly BS) excuse. There's no more of a health issue of him having a hole in his lip versus letting someone come to school with a cold. I mean, if someone gets hepatitis, is it OK to ban them from school activities in the rare case they might bleed on someone?

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35s_black(40 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

josho, finally, an intelligent and articulate comment on this story. Thank you.

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36metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

How true seems they just don't care.

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37vfreak13(1 comment)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

It's bad enough when kids today get picked on by their peers, but now we have a superintendent of a district to help contiue the outcasting. These kids are not bothering anyone by having their own identity. I tell ya what mr. superintendent, why don't you start to worry more about your schools' budget and education programs instead of ostracizing a young couple from the senior prom.

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38metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Sall siuues over a big problem of your budget. guess they are easier to solve then figuring out how to spend your money wisely. about as bad as Heuer in his way of thnking.

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39XFilesX(77 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Bravo Josho, bravo!

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40DoctorGonzo(728 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

You patronize what you admittedly believe to suck.
Obviously my comments went WAY over your head. I do find your assumptions (anyone see a pattern here) about me entertaining.
Snark.

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41sueveros(4 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Oh Boo-hoo, all your life we have rules and regulations that we have to follow. Hubbard has a dress code, plain and simple. You may not like it , but it is there for a reason. His facial piercings are against dress code, therefore he can't participate in school activities with his wife. It has nothing to do with who likes or dislikes Casey's face piercings, rules are rules and we have to follow them, that's one of the things they teach you in school.

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42smoke3ater(7 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Now there are many fine points made here and I try to keep an open mind, but I feel the school is in the wrong here. The fact that he has piercings does merit keeping him from the dance, but nothing in the dress code states that you can't have extra holes in your face. I could just as easily spit on someone, yet i was never banned from a dance.

Those who say he is a "freak", look at the world around you (outside of your sheltered community). Let's go back to the ORIGINAL inhabitants of this "AMERICA", that's right, native americans. Bones were used to pierce the septum, faces were painted and tattooed...WHAT FREAKS! So the white man came and kicked them out. African women would stretch their necks with rings and it was a thing of beauty. HOW DISGUSTING. The practices Casey uses are not anything new people, they've been around for centuries, and in some cultures are considered sacred. NOT IN THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY!!!

Now let's get back to the rules. If the scool wants to set a standard, they have to follow it 100%. Schools are a tobacco free zone, yet faculty are allowed to carry cigarettes every day. Police officers can bring guns into a school. Where do the set rules begin and end? Football stars chew on the field, have drunken parties, smoke pot...but they make the school look good so let's overlook them and take it out on the "freak kids". If Casey would have been a letterman star athelete there would be no issue at all. End of rant....

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43harbres(29 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

The school has the right to enforce a dress code for school functions. If a parent/guardian/or other visitor comes in, inappropriately dressed to a school function they CAN be asked to leave. I have worked now if 4 different districts in Ohio... and this has been the case in ALL 4 districts. In 2 of those districts, a lawyer was brought in and when it went before a judge to question the legality of it... the court sided with the district. They have the right to refuse entry to school functions based on health issues, behavior (some parents/other adults forget how they should behave in front of students --whether they be elementary or high school)or inappropriate dress... which can include a large list of things -- piercings, tattoos that are sexually explicit, violent or have explicit language on it, clothing with negative writing (as far as bad language, racist comments or sexual suggestion), if a female comes on to school property with a skirt that she can't bend over with out showing her %$# or a shirt that does not cover or is too small to hold it all in... she CAN and most likely will be asked to leave.

The schools can do that (whether the public thinks its right or not) on the basis that they continue to try to uphold a certain level of decency that the kids are exposed to...

Yes-- the kids are exposed to it outside of school but the school has no control of that... they can in fact though control what goes on at school functions (on or off school property) and of course anything on school property at any time. 98% of the time... the courts will agree and rule with the district.

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44DoctorGonzo(728 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

To those who decided to e-mail me personally:
I cannot find anywhere in my posts where I condemned marriage at 19 and 17 years of age. I do not have an issue with that. I merely stated that at those ages you do not know anything about the world, even though you may think you do.
A meaningful career is hard enough to find in the valley, let alone with bolts in your face. How many people do you know of with careers that have piercings in their face? 1 out of every 10, maybe.
If the high school prom isthe biggest issues facing you right now, then good for you. Do what you want and be happy. I am just stating opinions. That's what we do here.

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45josho(5 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Gonzo -

I suppose that depends on who you choose to be your company. A majority of my friends are pierced, and all have meaningful careers. I've already gone over what I do, even pierced. (I work for NASA, just as a refresher). As pierced friends go - god, they're all kinds of things.. lawyers, doctors, scientists, engineers, executive managers, and the list goes on. The odds are reasonable if you know how to present and carry yourself professionally.

And to your own credit, I don't recall you saying anything that would be considered condemning marriage at a young age - and you're entitled to opinion as everyone else is. Flaming isn't necessary though... neither towards you or from you. I don't see it as doing any good for the point anyone's trying to make.

Also.... no one puts bolts in their faces. The very few who do are fairly stupid (I'm not talking people with piercings in general, even facial piercings - I'm talking people who are actually putting pieces of hardware in their body as opposed to jewelry). Most jewelry is made from a material other than alloy steel with a zinc coating. It's just not healthy or safe to put any random piece of metal in your body.

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46harbres(29 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

DoctorGonzo---

I soo completely agree. It's hard enough to find a job and be taken seriously when you are educated,experience,qualified and serious about your career (no matter what the career.

Most companies are looking for someone who can not only represent themselves in a mature and professional manner -- -but who will represent the company appropriately.

Whether its right or it is the opinion of many of you here... an employer is going to look at someone with all those piercings and say to themselves... whether in a business meeting, as a sales person, a receptionist, a care giver.. or the guy that is flipping burgers somewhere... is this the way I want to represent my business? Most likely not... the guy/gal with the piercings or tattoos or whatever else MAY very well be the most educated and qualified for the job... there might be another person next to him/her wearing the professional mature looking attire and they might NOT be AS educated or experienced... but there is a good chance they will get the job because in some professions representation is EVERYTHING.

What I am getting here from DoctorGonzo... is that yeah right now this kid seems to think this is the way to go and "oh this is horrible discrimination" because a school doesn't think its appropriate... what happens when this same kid leaves the confines of Hubbard Ohio and goes out to try to get a job.... he is going to have to at some point face reality... that like EVERYTHING else that is not the "norm" there is going to be judgement, there is going to be questions and looks... and there is a good chance he is going to lose the opportunity for a job... because of the need to "express" himself in this way.

I'm all for him being able to "express" himself... but he has to realize... whether it be not being admitted to a high school dance or not getting a job, or a loan or whatever else he may be trying to obtain... he may NOT be taken seriously. If you are going to present yourself this way... Be prepared to not get accepted... that is YOUR choice to put yourself out there like that.... don't whine and complain when its not accepted.

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47metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Why shoud he pt out wit hpeople who din't like it? It is jsut how they feel and since when does that froce someone to pelase them? What they think is wat they think but don't try to force otheriwse to think the same way you do.

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48DoctorGonzo(728 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

You know people with facial piercings (lip, eyebrow, nose, septum, etc.) who are doctors, lawyers, scientists? You work for NASA and have facial piercings? Perhaps, but I think this an extreme anomaly. Although I can only speak from personal experience.
I am not as old as some people here may think, and I know several doctors, lawyers, executive business people, etc., and none of them have anything pierced above the neck except their ears, and that's just the women.
In any event, to each their own. I'll badmouth anybody I want here and if that upsets people, vote against my post, ask to have it removed or skip it all together.
The moniker is Doctor Gonzo, and we know what you're up to man.

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49metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Ok then we all have our opinions and nothing can change that.

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50XFilesX(77 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Hey Josho, want to get together and give these kids a few bucks to go out on the town all decked out in a limo for a nice dinner and listen to a band? Sounds better than a high school dance to me anyway.

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51XFilesX(77 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Exactly what does "we know what you're up to man" mean?

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52CrucifyTheNorm(3 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

My civil rights were violated. Plain and simple, end of story. Don't speak on my future, i will deal with that. Buchenic is a corrupt, immoral and immature part of Hubbard's school district and he needs to be called out.

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53whatis(1 comment)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I don't know but if DoctorGonzo, Stan and Dmets are what this country is coming to, then shoot me now. I know if things keep going the way they are, it's just bound to go to crap. Maybe what we need is more people LIKE Casey & Brittany. People trying this old fashion college, degree, marriage thing is what our problem is, maybe we should try something new. Best of luck to both of them, and you don't need to go to a dance if the school treats you like that anyways... =)

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54dmets(575 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I am not trying to be old fashion. But there IS a time and a place for everything. You try to tell me there were no rules to be followed at your school when you went there? I know darn well there were TONS of rules and dress codes at mine and where my brother went to school.(We went to different high schools.) This is HIGH school. These children, and yes in high school they still are children, need to wait til they are in college. Brittany knows the rules and dress codes, and her husband should have taken them out before he even got there. But I do think since he did offer to take them out, they should have let him in and asked him to plaese next time take them out before he got there.

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55XFilesX(77 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Harbres - No matter what you say, no school will make a parent take out his or her piercings or cover tattoos to enter a school or school function. And as for the mom who "comes on to school property with a skirt that she can't bend over with out showing her %$# or a shirt that does not cover or is too small to hold it all in... she CAN and most likely will be asked to leave", what planet do YOU live on? Because in THIS area, these schools are run by the good old boys and they LOVE to see a sexy mama come in. She can probably get her kid off of some trouble with her mode of dress. Hell, they don't even enforce the female students to that end a lot of the time. Check out what they are wearing sometime. I think this case comes down to HHS does not like Corey. They were probably glad to see him go and they were probably mad Brittany married him. Probably thought she'd "get tired" of him because "she's a child". So they found a way to punish him through her. Who's the real child in this situation?

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56stuckinOH(21 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Everyone seems to avoid the "hole in the face" issue. If he were to remove the jewelry there is a genuine health risk. I believe that is why the superintendant is opposed to that solution. Gone are the days of kids sharing waterbottles and hairbrushes. The world has become parinoid and lawsuit happy. The people of Hubbard accepted this dress code and now it is being enforced. If for some reason something were to happen that could link even in the most remote fashion to him and/or his piercings, I wonder how many of these same bloggers would stand in line to sue the school for allowing him to attend. Far fetched? Maybe....no probably....but all the same a liability that he has to be concerned with. Let them stay home and spend time with Grandma, least they can do since she's allowing them to live there.

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57CrucifyTheNorm(3 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Liability? I suppose that the pregnant students attending school everyday are perfectly acceptable. Yeah, the human body takes care of itself. A hole in the lip will close in under 3 days. Labor can happen at anytime, especially at a HIGH SCHOOL DANCE!!!! Increased movement and stress will induce early labor. So a closed facial piercing is more of a liability than a pregnant student?

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58josho(5 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

The "hole in the face" issue is a giant steaming load of BS. Actually, I already addressed it in a previous comment. What exactly is the health risk here? He might drool on someone from a distance? Oh my goodness gracious. There's a higher health risk from being sneezed or coughed or sweated on.. which applies to everyone. Are they going to start banning people from attending school whenever they have a cold? You do know that a person is the most contagious before they happen to show symptoms, right? So maybe we could cancel all school events period, given the presumption that someone might be getting sick and not know it yet. You know, cause it might be a liability.

Dr. G - I'm positive that our opinions are shaped due to personal experience. And you're completely entitled to yours. It would be entirely hypocritical of me to say otherwise. In fact, despite disagreeing with your stance on the issue, I don't have a problem with anything you've said. It's your opinion :) You aren't the one who goes as far as to grossly overgeneralize pierced people as "stupid and disfigured". Cause I can point out a number of individuals who aren't pierced and are quite stupid as well :) It's not the aesthetic choices you take that make you stupid, necessarily. Anyhow, is that a Hunter S Thompson reference I'm picking up, or am I completely nuts?

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59metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

How can the hole i nhsi face be a heath risk? Explai nthat one if you can. Why ont jsut come out and say the truth that you perosnally don't like it and think it looks like trash mister superintendent. Why lie about it?

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60Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Hey josho:

I never got piercing because I figured people would think I was stupid. As long as I felt that getting a piercing was stupid and didn't get one should this be a blemish on my character?

I do feel that the dude in the article should get more piercings and make a carny career out of it. This way only the ones who would enjoy looking at him would pay for that priveledge. Those who arent into body art would even want a free look. Is that a blemish on their characters?

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61josho(5 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I don't know if you're intentionally trying to piss me off, or if you're actually asking a legitimate question.

I don't see why being pierced or not should weigh on the character of an individual. If getting a piercing is stupid, would that imply that every person who's ever gotten a piercing is stupid? Or is the real issue that you don't personally find the idea of a piercing on yourself to be aesthetically pleasing? If it's something you really wanted, it wouldn't matter what anybody else thought of you, that's the point. And if you, personally, find it stupid... what, in your opinion, makes it so stupid? Just curious.

You seem to be fairly animate about this carnie career idea... hell, to the point of absolute redundancy. Are you somehow trying to imply that all people with facial piercings belong working as carnies, or are you just trying to find new, interesting coworkers?

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62metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Hmm, seems he implies that they are freaks which is his opinion

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63Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

NO BULL JOSHO
http://i34.tinypic.com/1zvwg3d.jpg

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64metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

well thats' one way to put it.

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65s_black(40 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

It's interesting to me that a guy who identifies himself with a Hulk Hogan picture is questioning other people's aesthetic choices. I'm just saying.

You've stepped into a nest of trolls, Josho. That's all these guys do is hang out on vindy threads looking for fights. Walk away. We've already figured out who is more intelligent.

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66Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

s_black:

I chose the Hulkster as an avatar because it gets attention like my posts do. I am here at the Vindy to give s_black something to complain about. I can't figure out what s_black is trying to figure out! :)

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67s_black(40 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Do not feed the trolls:

"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet...

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68josho(5 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Ha. I administer a forum full of trolls. These guys are amateurs :)

Still waiting for your response, Stan.

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69Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Josho:

I have responded. My friend s_black is already upticked! :)

MY NEW RESPONSE FOR s_black POSTS
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thum...

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70metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

This is really getting out of hand and off topic.

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71s_black(40 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

You're right metz, and I apologize for my part in it. Actually, I agree mostly with your take on this story. It seems that a whole lot of character judgments are being attached to a young man's facial piercings.

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72Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Now that we are back to the fellow that is pierced and snubbed. I think that he should get more piercings. You can't ever get enough. Get more and get noticed more! Tell them that Stan sent you! :)

May I suggest:
Spider's Tattoo & Piercing
4215 Mahoning Ave
Youngstown, OH 44515
330-799-8282

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73metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

yeah I have heard of them and i know a lot of people who have gone to them for tatoos and such.

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74Ltsky311(1 comment)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

This recalls an issue we had at my Liberty High School the year of my senior prom. There was a huge ordeal of a "gay" student who openly wanted to bring his life partner to our prom and liberty officials said absolutely no. At first because of his "alternative" life-style, me being of opened mind believe that his piercings are just a display of personal self expression and should be covered under the first amendment. File a civil suit if you want. Let the court decide what is right instead of a one sided view. And a small dable on the subject of living with his grandmother, you have no basis on how to judge your facts, his grand mother may be ill, he could be taking care of her. And lastly my mother was married at 15 with my father, and they have been married for 33 years this february. so be negetive along with most of society. And if you really want to be a pain in their ass. file for an injunction on the dance until the court can make a decision, although you'd be screwing over the whole student body. But the ball is in your court now so play it as you'd like.

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75Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Those on the periphory of society will continue trying to be certified as mainstream. Their goal is to have mainstream blend with the outer limits. It is a classic case of the tail trying to wag the dog.

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76dmets(575 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Ltsky311: I find that to be totally different then the situation in the article. People choose to get pierced and tatooed. The piercing can be taken out and tatoos covered. I person can't just turn off being "gay". My professor in college said it best, "Do yo really think people choose to be in a race that is hated?"

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77metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

No the people wh odn't like it cause the proble to get wrse. Hubbard shoud jsut elt itt go befoe it gets to court and egts ugly.

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78daddy8957(2 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

When i was in school way back when all a girl needed when she was sixteen was for her parent's or guardian's signature and poof she could get married. That usually only happened when the girl ended up pregnant and the man/boy was doing the "right thing". But usually the girl and man/boy had to quit school.
As far as his being her guardian along with being her husband. He should be allowed to go to the dance with her. I personally have no problem with that. The issue i have with that ordeal is that THEY should have used common sense and removed the jewelry before going to the dance.
I agree whole heartedly in dress codes. Come on people getting dressed up to go to a dance usually meant nice dress clothes..not put on your cleanest dirty t-shirt and ripped jeans and go for it.
I'll admit I'm 51 years old used to have long hair, beard and have tattoo's but i still know how to get dressed up in nice clothes and such for whatever occasion is at hand.
I probably have made more than one mistake in spelling and grammer in this message but after reading some of the other comments on this subject. I would like to thank all my teachers for doing their best at trying to teach me to spell and type also. Just to bad i didn't listen to them all the time!

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79XFilesX(77 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Where does this article say that he actually showed up at a dance with the piercings in? It says "Brittany Engstrom approached school officials earlier in the year to see if her husband could escort her to school dances and functions". That statement says she asked for permission before they showed up.

"Casey Engstrom, though no longer bound by the student dress code, spoke to school officials to see if an understanding could be reached on the jewelry that would allow him to escort his wife to the school dances. He offered to remove the jewelry." This stated he was trying to be a man, be an adult and come to a compromise. You DO see the part where it states he is NO LONGER BOUND BY THE STUDENT DRESS CODE?! But he was being respectful.

"Casey Engstrom said Buchenic, during their meeting, defined him as living an “alternative” lifestyle." This statement from Mr. Buchenic was inappropriate. Not his call to judge these two people.

"Buchenic said the school will stand firm on its decision not to allow Casey Engstrom to attend any school dances because of health reasons. The skin-stretching pieces would leave an open hole in the lip if removed, and removing the jewelry “was not acceptable because fluids could still come out, and I do not want to subject our students to those fluids,” he said." So at this dance, no one can sneeze, cough, laugh or even talk. Because fluids (droplets) are spread this way. I'm a nurse. This is common knowledge.

"Buchenic said students or any other person would be held to the same standard being imposed on the Engstroms." Like hell! If I took my child to a school function and was pierced, there is no way they would make me take out my piercings. Case in point, I did, no one made me.

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80metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years ago

helth concenrs my butt! Thats' just a poor excuse to treat them like dirt. you would have to have a diease and someone would ahve to lick the hole for their o eb any chance of an infection. since you woud eb kicked out for that and I dubt he would elt another girl do that to him that could never happen so they need to stop making up stupid reasns for why they kicked him out and apologize.

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81daddy8957(2 comments)posted 6 years ago

My appologies I overlooked a couple of parts of the article and I am truly sorry. Maybe it was the old synical part of me coming back out. I don't know!!!

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82dmets(575 comments)posted 6 years ago

Rules are rule and should be followed! I don't care what stupid excuse these people have. I think rules should be followed! Put on some band-aids to cover the holes, and go! metz: maybe you don't know this but saliva carries tons of bacteria and can transfer just about anything a person is carrying. So I do see why they said it is a health risk. They are looking out for the best interest and health of ALL the other students, not to make one student happy so she can bring her husband who is not dressed to code! Plain and simple follow the rules!!! It is not fair to student who go there, that have to follow the rule if gets to go without following the rules. Everyone has to follow dress code when going to school dance where they go to the school, another school, or are out of school. There is time and place for everything, and high school is not it for that life style!

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83Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years ago

For the uninformed who champion piercings and the display thereof. Have you ever gotten an injection as a medical procedure? Do you remember the alcohol swab that preceded it? They did this so the microbes wouldn't invade you when the needle penetrated. Many piercings that didn't have good hygiene administered seep from not being able to heal. Those who have this problem can give as well as get microbes from their environment. If you have piercings I suggest that you have a doctor check you out on a regular
basis. Bad infections may require an IV drip of antibiotics in a hospital.

CLICK BELOW FOR THE RISKS
http://www.perio.org/consumer/graphic...

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84XFilesX(77 comments)posted 6 years ago

WOW, Stan really is a jack of all trades. He thinks he is a comic, he thinks he is a teacher, he thinks he is a preacher, he thinks he is a lawyer, he thinks he is a mind reader and a fortune teller. He really is omnipotent!

Well Stan, I have tattoos and piercings, plus I work in the medical field. Contrary to your comments above, most people who are marked and pierced get them in a safe way. They aren't idiots. If they are obtained properly, once they are healed, it is not necessary to be checked by a doctor. I've been this way for 25+ years and never had an iota of problems.

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85metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years ago

I really doubt he did it himsef. that is the only way that heatth concenrs would eb an issue.

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86Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years ago

XFilesX:

You have been extremely fortunate. Whenever the skin is broken and metal remains the chances for infection escalate. Some cheap metals use in piercings cause an allergic reaction in some people that doesn't allow normal healing.

BTW, what does the XFilesX evision himself to be? I aspire to work my way into a posh government job with the Obama administration. My conservative views clashing with liberal ideology may not gain myself such a position. The best that I could do then would be to track the steps that liberals have taken to prosperity. You seem to have done well to have found money to waste on piercings and tattoos ! :)

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87metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years ago

so that happens al lthe time? Smees to be a rare thing,jsut becuse the skinds ets broken does not mean you will egt an inffection. a cut on your hand form a piece of paper could do it too so lets go out and ban paper in school due to heath concenrs.

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88XFilesX(77 comments)posted 6 years ago

I don't feel my money has been "wasted", Stan. And I have done well, despite my piercings and tattoos. My portfolio would make you cry like a baby, Stan. So you go ahead and aspire all you want. Remember "Those that CAN, do. Those that CAN'T, criticize."

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89dmets(575 comments)posted 6 years ago

I agree with you XFilesX. There many people who have piercings and tattoos that are very smart. I also do believe that at a high school dance they are not appropriate. Especially when there is a dress code. I think if the students of the school are held to the dress code, so should their dates whether they are a friend, boy/girlfriend, husband/wife. People are forgetting that every school does have a right to refuse someone attending a dance do to dress code violations. I mean they haveno allowed girls for their dress be too revealing, which is against the dress code. Rules are rule and should be followed by everyone going to the dances!!!!

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90Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years ago

XFilesX:

You truly are an inspiration. My optical mouse has worn out and my keyboaed has letters worn off. The computer recently had a new motherboard installed. I can't fit piercings or tattoos into my budget. My portfolio has suffered from the economic plight that we are in. I received an email that I won a Beamer and a half mil in cash. My hopes were raised until an investigation showed it to be a Nigerian scam. Keep us posted on your fortunes so that we may still have hope! :)

dmets :
Do you feel that a tattoo and a piercing would make me smarter or dumber? I may do a study on IQ enhancenent by piercing and tattooing the body.

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91metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years ago

It really does not mean much. I';ts like saying you are white so you are smarter then a black person. Tht would be called racisim.

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92dmets(575 comments)posted 6 years ago

Stan: I do not think they make a person smarter or dumber. Each person holds the power to be as smart as they want to be whether they are or are not pierced or tattooed. I am saying that just because a person does have them does not mean they are stupid. Also that just because a person does not have them makes them smarter. The depth of someone's intelligence is something held within each person and their motivation and drive to learn.

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93Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years ago

dmets:

If you get pierced and tattooed then doors are closed because of the way you look who is to blame? Society because it doesn't conform to you or are you to blame because your actions didn't allow you to meet that standards?

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94dmets(575 comments)posted 6 years ago

Stan: You make me laugh so hard! All you do is keep jumping subjects. I do know many people who are pierced and tattooed who have amazing jobs and make good money. But high school dances are not the place for it. Do you see the point? There is a time and a place for everything!

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95Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years ago

dmets:

I see that you are easily amused and have a problem analyzing concepts. I suppose that down at the waste water treatment plant that they wouldn't care about tatoos or piercings.

So you want this fellow to not have the right of displaying his body art at the dance but you are proud of your friends displaying it at work? You are amusing!

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96dmets(575 comments)posted 6 years ago

No you see the people I know, with them, they respect the rules and regulations set forth by their places of employment. So they do cover up their tats, and do take out their piercings. But they do make an awesome living, and outside of work the do show the art off and wear their piercings. So as I said there is a time and a place for everything. I also do know people that tats and piercings are their life, and they do them for a living and make awsome money at it. I do not have a problem analyzing concepts, understand how to do it.
Stan you seem to always be on the other side of the issue with me. I'm starting to think you are a troll, who just likes to argue even if you don't believe what you are typing!

Oh and just to let you know I do not see piercings as an art form. And I do stand by that school should have a dress code and should enforce it for everyone going to a dance whether they are a friend, girl/boyfriend, or wife/husband! They are children! And in some cases children trying to be adults. If her husband wants to join his wife at the dance FOLLOW THE RULES!!!

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97metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years ago

he TRIED to remvoe them wich is the right tihng to do and they screwed him over by telling him he ahd to leave along with his wife. don't you get that he did not go in and refuse to follow the rules.

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98Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years ago

dmets:

"I'm starting to think you are a troll, "

When all else fails you call me a troll.:) Well, no big deal as I have been called worse. Your standards and my standards are a bit apart.

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99metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years ago

Everone has different opinions. why go to war over it?

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100dmets(575 comments)posted 6 years ago

No war here! I just think there is a time and a place for everything! It that too hard to understand?

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101metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years ago

Well it seems to me you guys want from dicussing the story to slaming each other.

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102Stan(9923 comments)posted 6 years ago

metz87:
"SLAMMING" ?

I debate the issue of impressions by the public and get called a troll ! Now where did I call dmets anything?

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103dmets(575 comments)posted 6 years ago

metz87: you are in for a long fight now! Thank you for taking it off my hands:-)!!

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104metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years ago

Well you are arguring more other what the other person says then the story.

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105petedrivere(1 comment)posted 2 years, 12 months ago

It's 3 years later and Casey and Brittany are still happily married. Currently living in Florida, where Brittany makes her living doing BODY PIERCINGS!!!! Imagine that.

I own a music recording business in Youngstown and Casey worked for me. He is a very talented and personable individual and has become a good friend. He is currently working in a studio in Florida.

At this point, those of you that said that these kids were doomed to divorce and that Casey should take the bolts out of his face in order to get a job are just plain wrong.

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