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Thousands cheer first black president

Published: Wed, November 5, 2008 @ 12:00 a.m.


CHICAGO (AP) — A triumphant Barack Obama vowed to be a president for all America, even those who voted against him, and asked for patience to address America’s problems of war and finance, which the called the greatest challenges of a lifetime.

The first black president-elect cast his election as a defining moment in America’s 232-year history and an answer to cynicism, fear and doubt about the power of democracy.

His victory speech was delivered before a multiracial crowd of more than 100,000 people. Many cried and nodded their heads while he spoke, surrounded by clear bulletproof screens on his left and right.

“If there is anyone out there who still doubts that America is a place where all things are possible; who still wonders if the dream of our founders is alive in our time; who still questions the power of our democracy, tonight is your answer,” he said in his first public words after winning the election.

While strong support in Mahoning and Trumbull counties helped Obama carry Ohio, an important swing state, his vote percentages in the two counties were smaller than those of John Kerry, the 2004 Democratic candidate, who lost his race.

Though the Valley didn’t come through as strong as some expected, Obama supporters were absolutely thrilled with the final results.

Obama will be a strong advocate for cities, such as Youngstown, and areas, such as the Mahoning Valley, that have struggled and are working to better themselves, state Rep. Robert F. Hagan of Youngstown, D-60th, said.

Youngstown Mayor Jay Williams, who made history in 2005 when he was elected the city’s first black mayor, is hopeful Obama can help the Valley, but we need to be patient. Help for the area from the federal government will come, but it won’t happen the day after Obama is sworn in as president, he said.

He appeared on stage with his wife, Michelle, and daughters Malia, 10, and Sasha, 7, set to become the first family of color ever to occupy the White House. Every family member dressed in black and red.

To those who voted against him, he said, “I will be your president, too.”

“Even as we celebrate tonight, we know the challenges that tomorrow will bring are the greatest of our lifetime — two wars, a planet in peril, the worst financial crisis in a century,” he said. “There is new energy to harness and new jobs to be created; new schools to build and threats to meet and, for us to lead, alliances to repair.”

He was already suggesting a second term to accomplish his goals, saying he expected “setbacks and false starts.”

“We may not get there in one year or even one term,” he said. “But America, I have never been more hopeful than I am tonight that we will get there. I promise you — we as a people will get there.”

Obama, an Illinois senator born 47 years ago of a white American mother and black African father, sprinkled his address with references to the civil rights struggle.


1Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Now the four year journey with Obama begins. His greatest achievement may be winning this election.

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2s_black(40 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Yeah, Stan, didn't you just say the same thing on another post? Aren't you done repeating yet?

Oh, and it's an eight year journey.

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3fleeytown(12 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

s black; in case you forgot, or did not learn in ytown schools, the president is only elected to a four year term, then he must face reelection. I doubt that Obama will be able to make any great strides with his plans to socialize America. He still has to face a congress that thankfully does not have a super majority.

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4s_black(40 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

fleeytown, Thanks for the government lesson, but you missed the point. I was expressing my optimism and confidence in our president elect. Things move fast here, try to keep up.

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5sinthor(87 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

LOL! u go s black !!

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6Youngstown_Strong(91 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Finally, someone I voted for actually won! As a white man with a black fiance, I look forward to the day when my future wife and I can tell our children (much like my parents told me) that they can be anything they want to be if they work for it and believe.

People will go on and on for the next 4 years about him being the 1st black President but they still need to realize he is just as much white as he is black. This is a post-racial era and I'm happy that the majority of America has caught up in their thinking.

My advice to everyone in Mahoning and Trumbull county is to stop the segregation that started 30 years ago when the mills died. Blacks & whites lived worked together and got along fine in the mills but after Black Monday, it has been a slow step backwards around here. Parts of Youngstown are almost entirely black and parts of our suburbs are almost entirely white. Use this historic moment as an example that everyone in this country needs to unite, as Americans above all else, and move forward.

Off of the issue of race now, all of the left-wing in the Valley needs to get over the anger of George Bush, it is history and it is over. Time to learn from mistakes. All of the right-wing in the Valley needs to accept a dramatic change in policy. Our foreign policy can't get much worse than it is now so it will change, dramatically. If that means talking with people Bush labeled evil, then let's talk. (Except for Bin Laden, let's finally get that SOB & bring him to justice!) Our economic policies can't get much worse now, so they will need to change. Republicans like to say we won the war in Iraq (even though I don't know what constitutes victory) so I say great, let's agree. We won, we set up a democracy, now let's let them grow. America didn't have another country's military around when it grew so we've got to get out of there and let them do things for themselves. If they really believe in democracy, they will fight for it themselves.

We can accomplish things if we all agree and act on them, step one was this election, January 20th it will be time for step two...

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7JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

What constitutes a "super majority?" (If you mean "super" in the fact that its not Republican...right on. If not, boo.)

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8Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago


Is repeating ok for you but not for me?

Since Barack won I have decided to make the best of it by applying for a govcernment grant to buy the Vindy. Journalism has always fascinated me ! :)

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9Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Obama votes with Bill Ayers
9:46 AM Tue, Nov 04, 2008


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10s_black(40 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Stan, Thanks for the link, but I was really hoping for another photo. I need a new desktop background, and what would be better than my two favorite terrorists participating in the democratic process together? That's all right. I'll try to contain my disappointment.

Hey flee, just so you're clear this time, I'm using sarcasm. S-A-R-C-A-S-M.

Thanks, sinthor, and right back at you!

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11Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago


Louis Farky was there too.

Among the Other Voters
November 04, 2008 8:38 AM

CHICAGO, Ill. -- Among the other voters who have shown up to vote at Shoesmith Elementary School this morning, where Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., will vote: Louis Farrakhan and William Ayers.


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12s_black(40 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Louis F. too! Hot dog, it's the terrosist trifecta! Thanks Stan! BTW, I noticed you posted your "Obama's greatest achievement" line on the blog that you linked. It might be time to retire that one, buddy.

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13dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Of course it will be a couple years. He even said that himself. It would be that way no matter who was elected into office, and want to change things in Washington!

As for Jay Williams doing more, I just do not see it at all!

You talk about universal health care a pipe dream? Why it works just fine and great in Canada. I think it is a great idea! I think it should have happened many many years ago. Health insurance is through the roof even when you have coverage. And to afford that coverage, it's a good chunk out of the pay every month. Your very funny with the raise taxes. If you listen to or read his plan, you would see exactly how it will work and be paid for.

As for Palin in 2012, It's going to take more then four years for the republican to get their party back together. They are going to collapse and need to rebuild, but that will be hard with too many of them waiting things their way!

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14OhioPerson(76 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Youngstown Strong: What do you mean "it's a post-racial era?"

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15Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago


I have retired my Obama road to victory line since he has won. So you don't like predictions when then don't suit your line of thinking? Perhaps you should contact Obama and advise him on how to be successful in office. Who knows you could then be on the 2012 ticket.


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16s_black(40 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Stan, It's not you, it's me. This relationship just isn't working for me. Don't take it personally. You're a fabulously dense and humorless man, and I'm sure you'll find someone equally dense and humorless with whom to make a new vindy.com life.

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17TB(1167 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

I've talked to Canadians of different generations who love their health care system.

The expectations of Obama having to fix the country right away will be the biggest battle he has to face. He rightfully has an ambitious agenda. I look forward to seeing him fix this country, piece by piece.

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18Shamus(6 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

this off the subject of Obama, back to real issues, work in Youngstown area. I hope local leaders will get green industry in the local economy. Like solar panel manufacturing, there is a great little urban car coming to America call the "Air Car" because it runs on, compressed Air. Diverse green industry. So some rustbelt refugees can come home.
I'm still praying that Y-town doesn't get passed by now that the elections are done.

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19Youngstown_Strong(91 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

OhioPerson, when I said "post-racial era" I meant that our country is moving past divisions of race. My generation especially and all the future generations are moving past that and our country is too, as a whole. That doesn't mean that racists are gone and they probably never will be but this vote clearly shows that the racial hatred which existed throughout much of the 20th century in America is fading away. Certain parts of the country (cough cough, the south) are still divided but when a state like Iowa which is 90% white votes for Obama, I know we're moving in the right direction.

Perhaps the better term is a "multi-racial era" where people of any race and especially of mixed race are looked at in the same light as others. In our society, Tiger Woods, Derek Jeter, Hines Ward and now Barack Obama are icons, heroes and role models to kids of all races. They are all of mixed race and they have all succeeded in America. I use those specific examples only because they immediately came to mind.

hope that answered your question.

side-note* despite what you may think of the Steelers or Hines Ward, he went to South Korea where his mother is from and taught kids there to treat mixed race children like everyone else. Sadly, Koreans typically marry within their own family and the level of discrimination there is awful. They even passed laws prohibiting the rights of those who don`t have "pure Korean blood." Check out this article for an interesting read and then think about the message that electing Obama will send to not only Korea but the world:

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20clayor(281 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

FYI, Obama is not officially black, he is white, you must have 6% of your blood to be considered black, he does not.....he is just pandering to the black population, and did a good job!

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21bcim(13 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Have you all forgotten ONE point: he's not black; ONLY 1/2. Half is WHITE!!

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22dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

YSUgrad99: You are talking to someone who's grandmother was born in Canada. She then came here to the US the right way. She was one of the best nurses in Canada. I have plenty of family who still live in Canada and they love the health care system. As for the US having the second fastest health care system, that can be scary too. Doctors rushing people in and out, too get more people in and out their door. More money in their pockets. Misdiagnosing people illnesses, malpractice. Sounds great to me. The cost of health care is rediculious! Even if you have a job that has health care insurance.

Clayor! Thank you so much for point that fact out! Noone even talk about that fact that Obama in bi-racial, wblack and white. They seem to have completely disregarded the fact that he was raised and care for by his white mother, grandmother, and grandfather! But he did not work the black population, he is half black.

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23Youngstown_Strong(91 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

In my 1st post I specifically pointed out that he is half white/half black. I suggest you read it. I talked about how as a white man with a black fiance this gives me hope for my future children.

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24YoungstownMom(46 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

What most people do not realize, the reason health care is so expensive is because we have people who sue, sue, sue doctors and when multimillion dollar settlements. Then doctors have to raise prices to pay their extremely high malpractice insurance. Ohio is one of a few states that do not put a cap on lawsuit awards. Do you realize that an OB/GYN (baby doctor) has to pay 100,000 dollars a year, that's right, $100,000 in 1 year, in malpractice insurance. This is just for doctors who have never been sued. This is why it costs close to 15,000 just to have a baby.

Do not blame doctors for the rise in health care cost, blame the people who are out to get money for themselves the easy way.

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25boardmanneedschange(364 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Youngstown mom you are nuts. If a doctor is sued for malpractice and found guilty, then chances are he should pay out the wazoo for effing up.

"sorry I cut off the wrong limb, ma'am, the good news is, we'll fix you up with the next operation for free."

Again, Youngstown Mom you are nuts.

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26boardmanneedschange(364 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Here's a thought.....There are billions of people going hungry in the world. there are commercial and industrial buildings that are abandoned and closed down due to lack of business in this country(youngstown alone for god's sake!) Why doesnt someone put two and two together and just start building indoor agricultural facilities! Grow Faster, Grow More, Give 25 percent to the hungry and sell the rest locally. Oh and heres the kicker, if you keep giving away 25 percent no matter how big or little you are, PAY NO TAXES! Probably create a few jobs while we are at it. Thinking like that will change this country.

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27Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Obama gets elected and the stock market plunges.

Stocks tumble, lose 10 percent in 2-day rout.


But from the minute Democrats gained control of Congress in 2006, the downward spiral began:

Consumer confidence plummeted.
The cost of regular gasoline soared.
Unemployment escalated by 10%.
Households saw $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate through stock and mutual fund losses.
Home equity dropped by trillions of dollars and untold numbers of homes are in foreclosure.
Food prices skyrocketed over 30% in 1 year.


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28clayor(281 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

If you have a white mother, white grandmother and a white grandfather, where does the half come in dmetz? Am I doing the math wrong?

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29Ken(153 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Obama has an extremely difficult task ahead. Plus, in spite of all of the blame George Bush has received...it is Congress that will have to enact and pass measures to aid out Country. Obama will need solid guidance from people who care about our Country. He cannot do it alone!

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30dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

clayor, cause on his father side he also has the balck father, grandmother, grandfather, ect. The way he is half white and half black is cause mother was WHITE, and his DAD black. That makes him HALF white and HALF black. He has stated that himself. You must have no common sense if you can not figure out he had more then just a black father.

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31YoungstownMom(46 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

First of all BOARDMANNEEDSCHANGE, I never said that doctors who screwed up should not pay. I said that their should be a limit on the rewards. Malpractice insurance premiums are decide similarly to car insurance premiums. Your insurance will go up if insurance companies have to pay out a large amount for your area. Same goes for malpractice insurance. Some of these costs are so high that doctors are leaving this area to practice in states that have caps on rewards.

If the doctor truley screwed up then he needs to pay, but if he has never made a mistake, he should not be forced to pay skyrocketing premiums.

And the indoor agriculture idea, good idea, maybe you should get started on it right away.

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32Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

"And the indoor agriculture idea, good idea, maybe you should get started on it right away."

It has already been tried here in Youngstown growing a high cash value crop. The operator got busted and the building is available again. No need to worry as the Mexican Drug Cartel is still exporting to the Valley.

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33alumni(10 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

This is the most racist board I have ever read. Whoever can't take a black president move out of the US because it has happened and theres nothing you prejudice people can do about it. He can't be any worse than that fake Bush and all the ones before him who in fact loves them some black women. Get over yourselves who cares what you think. None of you will ever be the President because you are or never will be smart enough. Like it or not he's in there

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34clayor(281 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

dmets.......does that make him officially black or white? I'm saying he is more white than black.......but it doesn't matter, he is calling himself black, as are his followers. Including you.

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35OhioPerson(76 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Please read Obama's book http://www.amazon.com/Dreams-My-Fathe... to understand what his feelings are on his race identity. He identifies as a black man because that's his experience of race in this racist country. In other words, he gets treated black so he identifies as black.

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36dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

If you read the article when they ask Obama what kind of dog he was going to get. He said, a mut like me. I am half black and have white.

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37Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Obama is now identified as The President Elect. On inauguration day he will be the President of The United States of America. People of many races have built this nation and he will be a leader of many races. How he will be remembered in history depends on how well he leads the people of America.

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38OhioPerson(76 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

You can either listen to one off-hand flippant remark he made about his racial identity or you can read the book he wrote about it explaining why he generally calls himself a "black man" and why he identifies himself that way when he's being serious.

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39projectgeniene(87 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Youngstown Mom, don't worry - women understand what you mean about OB/GYN doctors. I knew many in NYC and a few in Ohio that left the OB specialty just for that reason. It is very unfortunate that every doctor in that specialty has to pay such high insurance rates to the point that it is often fiscally necessary to leave the profession regardless of their skill level. Net, net - patients need to do their homework, ask questions (ask questions!) and police their doctors and hospitals to ensure optimal care regardless of the country they live.

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40Laurieljc(63 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

People who never voted before came out in droves because Obama is considered a black man. Some voted to put him in office simply because of his color and some voted to keep him out of office simply because of his color. It had nothing to do with the issues. Was the fact that Obama is inexperienced- just four years from senator to president-a bigger factor than the fact that he is black? Was the consideration that Obama may be the fresh face with the fresh ideas that our country might need now considered? Was that considered more than his color? No, no one cared about those things. It was about his color. What does that say about us as Americans?

After what happened on 09/11, I never thought that the American people would vote for someone who even faintly, very remotely, in any way, shape or form, had any Muslim connections or ties. If race werent such a big issue in this election, wouldve the Muslim ties have been a much bigger issue?

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41clayor(281 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

No, his official quote was "Like me, a mutt". Period

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42Ken(153 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Obama will be an excellent leader. But, remember, it's CONGRESS that must make things happen!! As for the creation of jobs, also remember that the government has never created anything that is able to employ those that clamor the most for jobs. Only through higher taxes will more entitlement programs be created for the "middle class."....whatever that means!

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43clayor(281 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

It means get ready to open up your wallet again...you're done.

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44dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

I know that i will not be opening my wallet again. I will be getting a nice tax break. clayor, you listen to those stupid ads on tv, and the brainwashing tactics the McCain campaign used. I listen to those who were unbaise, and went to their website and saw exactly what my cut break will be. You are going to eat your words when all is said and done!

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45jfuze0905(82 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago


Let me post this again. I did post this link before the election, but I suppose the "unbaise" people you speak of were those that were promoting "your" candidate's tax plan...

"Let's talk tax plans:

Read the article located at


and then make an informed decision...interesting to note are Tables 7 and 8 where there is a breakdown of the income tax structure by both candidates."

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46dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

jfuze0905: No they were not backing my candidate. They were no backing any candidate. That is why they were UNBAISE!

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47clayor(281 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Ok, so a "stimulus" package is again being considered. Consider this.......the only people who benefit from this are those who never pay into anything, we, the working poor are only getting what we paid in returned, those who pay nothing, do nothing, get the benefit, and they are NOT getting stimulated to go to work. We who have paid are paying them who don't, and they are loving it.

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48clayor(281 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Laurie, I fear this is only the tip of the iceberg. Things do NOT look good.

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49dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

clayor: why must you be so negative? Maybe if you had a positive attitude towards things they seem different to you. Look at the glass as half full instead of half empty. People like you put up negative comments to get people to be negative too, cause misery loves company.

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50Brian215(13 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Yes!!! We have embraced CHANGE and HOPE!! Appointing all the former Clinton staff is so refreshing, NOT!! Dear Leader has already shown his lack of class by leaking details of his meeting with Bush. This guy is not Presidential material we just have to hold out til 2012 or impeachment whichever comes first.

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51Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Obama will not get himself impeached. Bill Clinton tried his best to be kicked out of office and couldn't do it. Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives on December 19, 1998, and acquitted by the Senate on February 12, 1999. With the Democrats in control it wont happen no matter what Obama does in office.


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52jfuze0905(82 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago


I still don't know what unbaise means, but that's neither here nor there. Did you happen to read that "unbiased" report in the link I provided?

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53dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

This is the meaning of unbiased straight from the Merriam-Webster's online dictionary.

1: free from bias ; especially : free from all prejudice and favoritism : eminently fair <an unbiased opinion>
2: having an expected value equal to a population parameter being estimated <an unbiased estimate of the population mean>

I hope that you understand what it means now. As for you link, why would I read it? How do I know the people who wrote the stuff are unbiased?

I hope this little English lesson was good for you!

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54clayor(281 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

And who does this apply to, Dmets? I do believe you will live to regret your opinions and suffer for it. Time will tell. And yes, I am negative, I have been around longer than you have and am able to read the handwriting on the wall, read it quick, the next time you see it, it may be in Arabic.

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55dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

clayor how do you know you have been around longer then me. You need to see the brighter side of things. It is ok to give something NEW a try. As for you people who are crying cause McCain did not win, I am glad there will not be four more years of the same. I am glad to be a positive person, and give a true chance for CHANGE!!!! Maybe you need to quit looking at the color of someone's skin, or what YOU believe their belief system is, and you need to not look at everything as black and white, cause there is a huge section of grey!

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56jfuze0905(82 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Oh, I see, the term was "unbiased", not "unbaise"...that's probably why I couldn't find in the dictionary.

Well, I'm glad that you finally cleared that up for me. Now I have to ask you again, dmets, have you read the "unbiased" report that I linked from the Tax Policy Center"?

I would suspect not, because it really does shed light on the tax plans by both candidates.

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57dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Why would I read that? How do I know that they "unbaised"? Because you assume they are?

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58Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

dmets :

The issues I and others have with Obama has nothing to do with skin color so don't try clouding the issue. I would support a green man if he met my criteria.

Here are some of the issues:
Obama overwhelmingly supports the killing of the unborn.
Lets not forget his stance against drilling for oil.
He is eager to shut down the USA coal industry and drastically raise electric rates.

I see no change here just a same old from the liberals. As long as they get big government checks who cares about the people!

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59clayor(281 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Good one, Stan......thanks for putting it in a nutshell.

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60dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Ok first of killing of the unborn. That should not be an issue debated by congress ever. Every person has the right to privacy. That also mens a woman who is pregnant and does not want to carry to full term. You do not have to stand before God and justify her actions, she does! There is noway I would ever do it, but I should not take another woman's choice away. As for not drilling of the shores. That needs to be looked at very carefully. Is it going to change the eco-system? If so why drill? If not drill. As for shutting down the coal idustry, it is a very dangerous job, and many die, and do need to be regulated. But he is into clean coal so somehow, someway that coal needs to be extracted, so i don't see the coal industry going anywhere. And for all you know McCain could have been blowing smoke, telling people what they wanted to hear. Hell either one of them could have been. Lets face it. Both parties did not have the strongest candidate, but the lesser of the two evils won.

As for you clayor way to ride on someone else's coat tails, ideas, adn views.

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61jfuze0905(82 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Why should the killing of the unborn not be an issue debated by Congress? We have laws against killing other human beings. That being said, I think it is up to debate as to when a fetus is alive as opposed to "unborn".

How can the taking of one human life be different than the taking of another human life?

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62dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Because an unborn child is not considered a human until they take there first breath of air. You need to read our Bill of Rights the United States Constitution. You need to realize that if they decide to revesre and band abortion that IS interferring a person right to privacy. If they do over turn it, may woman will end up dying going into othyer counrties or back alley clinics. So YOU should not jugde these woman, only GOD gets to do that. And as I said before women who do end a pregnancy have to answer to God theselve. We do not!

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63jfuze0905(82 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Well, I just read the Bill of Rights, and unless I missed something, I do not see anything about abortion or right to privacy about it in there.

I'll read the Constitution later on and find out what it says about it there.

I don't judge these women who chose to have an abortion. I am anti-abortion as it stands...I just want to know how abortion differs from murder. And, who gets to chose when someone is considered a "human". I think that these wannabe gangbangers riding around in their hoopties, shooting people at will are "in-human", so should we have the right to abort them?

Lastly, your arguments would be much better if you utilized proper english and possibly spell checked before you posted.

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64jfuze0905(82 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

"The Roe v. Wade decision prompted national debate that continues today. Debated subjects include whether and to what extent abortion should be legal, who should decide the legality of abortion, what methods the Supreme Court should use in constitutional adjudication, and what the role should be of religious and moral views in the political sphere. Roe v. Wade reshaped national politics, dividing much of the nation into pro-Roe (mostly pro-choice) and anti-Roe (mostly pro-life) camps, and inspiring grassroots activism on both sides."

So, abortion should not be debated in Congress, but it can be stated by the Supreme Court? Doesn't make too much sense to me, but I guess with due process, I mean the lack thereof since the fetus cannot defend itself, it should be someone elses right.

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65dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

The problem is the first case roe v wade should have never went to court. It should have been the woman's right to terminate her pregnacy. As for the gandbangers riding around, YOU do not have the right to abort them unless you were pregnant with them and choose to do so at that time, and yes their mother did have that right when she was pregnant. Now you or their mother does not have that right.

Also, no i do not proof read at all. I just post. I did not realize I was debating with an English teacher. I got my piont across and my point is plain an simple, a woman, any woman should have a choice to end a pregnancy within the first trimester. I would much rather there be laws that do not permit it as a form a birth control. Believe me I do know woman who have had an abortion, and they do suffer the rest of their live for that decision. Do you believe woman who are rapped or get pregnant from incest should have to give birth to that child? Something forced upon them?

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66Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago


So if you conceive you have the right to kill? Why because of mans law? Not too long ago Blacks were Slaves because of mans law. Was this also just? Just as Blacks were helpless and were helped in their liberation so is the unborn child hepless against its slaughter. This killing of the most innocent is a matter of convenience just as it was convenient for Blacks to be owned and work for free.

In your reasoning high fuel prices are good along with high electric rates. Without coal there would be no steel industry. We could then import all of our steel,right? High electric rates would further impoverish us into a third world class. Your logic is like that of a crashed computer.

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67YoungstownMom(46 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Dmets: I understand where you are coming from. I do not agree with abortion and I would never do it, but Obama is for partial-birth abortion. To kill a child before he is able to TAKE that breath is wrong. Fetuses have heartbeats 44 days after conception (something like 44 days). Partial-birth abortion is done up to 25 weeks. My daughter was born at 27 weeks. 2 weeks time is not that long, but she lived for 2 months. I would never give that back. I could not even think about aborting her just 2 weeks earlier. The doctor told us she had a 80%-90% chance to live. That is too much of a chance to leave it at 2 weeks.

I know a lot of women think it is about them and their rights, but what about the father. This is of his DNA also. He should have a say in it as well.

If we allow partial-birth abortion, what is next. Full term abortion, just as long as the child did not breath. Where do we stop.

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68lebronjeremy(16 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

YoungstownMom he's not for partial birth abortion. You got that from a 527 ad, which, you should know, aren't ever factually accurate. Why don't you look up some information instead of regurgitating propaganda that you clearly got from a 527 ad? Go to factcheck.org; it's non-partisan unlike fox news, which I could only assume is where you get most of your information.

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69YoungstownMom(46 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Lebronjeremy, you do not know me and do not know where I get my information from. I am not REGURGITATING PROPAGANDA. Since when is the life of a child propaganda. You could assume all you want about where I get my information, because we all know about ASSUME.

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70YoungstownMom(46 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

To clarify my response, I feel that the government should not have a say what we do with our bodies, but we also have a moral obligation to take in account the thoughts of the father (of course with the exception of rape or incest).

This is a very delicate issue and should be one that is a personal issue. I, you, or Uncle Sam should not have a say in what we do, but we also have to think about the unborn child as well.

It is a very hard decision for any woman to make and something they will have to live with, but it should not be something that the government tells us how to handle.

This will be something that will be a hotbed of arguments for many more years to come.

Hopefully this clears up what I am trying to say.

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71lebronjeremy(16 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

No need to yell, I could hear you fine from here. I was a pro-lifer because I believed in adoption an responsibility for one's actions. The problem is these children don't get adopted and often grow up without a family. And, naturally, many of the parents aren't responsible, and they neglect the child

I agree that there should be a ban on partial-birth abortion, unless, of course, the life of the mother is at stake.

However, you said Obama supports the notion of partial-birth abortions, which is simply not true. Undoubtedly, this information came from the 527 ads and the campaign ads, and you did not bother to factcheck the information. That is regurgitating probaganda.

Please don't try to twist my words by insinuating that I am calling the life of a child propaganda, either.

And let's face it: you do get your news from fox and talk radio, right? You don't have to answer honestly to me, just to yourself

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72clayor(281 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Yes, Obama does support partial birth abortion, or he did long before this campaign. My question is, if he supports this, what are his views on old people? Maybe he also supports elimination of these. Sound familiar??

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73lebronjeremy(16 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

He opposed a back-door bill in the state senate that would have infringed on women's rights. This bill didn't contain protection of roe v wade.
He said he would have fully supported a similar bill that good ol' G. W. signed because it had protection of roe v wade.
Also, you make it sound as if he wants to go around aborting un-born fetuses. Please, he voted down this measure because of other crap on the bill, and you all know that.

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74dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Stan: I do not beleive I have a right to kill. If you read what I wrote, I said I would never be able to have an abortion. But I do not think a woman's choice should not be taken from her.

YoungstownMom: I only think a woman should be able to abort in the first trimenster. The only way a woman should be able to after is if her life is at stake.

For people say what Obama beleives: Have you personally asked him yourself? Have you heard it straight from his mouth? I think so much crap was said and throughout the campaign we could not really know who was coming or going.

I also beleive if a father does want the child, the woman should carry the baby and sign all rights away to the father. But the father would NEVER be able to ask the mom for anything like money or help of any kind. He also should have to pay for everything thoughout the pregnancy.

I do beleive in adoption! I think it is 100% the way to go. But I do beleive woman who are rapped or become pregnant from incest have ever right to terminate that pregnancy!

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75Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

So you liberals want to argue a mothers right to abort ? Lets ! Lets say that your mother could travel back in time and abort you at will. How many of you could see the void after experiencing life? How many voids have been created by the millions who have been aborted? Yes it is a matter of choice! A choice was made for them to die.

Abortion is nothing but barbarianism in the Twentieth Century! No wonder some nurses are rebelling.


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76dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Hey Stan I know my mom would not abort me if we went back in time. I was a planned pregnacy. Her and my father planned each of the children they had.

Stan: whether abortion is legal or not, it is ALWAYS going to happen! That is the point you need to understand. You can not stop a woman who does not want a pregnancy from getting an abortion even if it is illegal. They will go out of the states to get one, or a back alley place. You can argue until you are blue in the face. I would never and could never have an abortion, but i do not see it as my right to take it away from another woman.

By the way you didn't answer my question to men. Would you want your right taken away if you were they one who was having an unwanted pregnancy? Would you carry to term if you were rapped or it happen through incest?

You need to realize in some circumstances women need that as an option!

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77Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago


So what if you were planned. Would you deny your mother the right to be free from the drudgery of child raising? I see that when you could be the victim of abortion it is different.

Just because people would do it anyway is a feeble excuse. Rapes,robberies and killings go on in spite of the law. Will we eventually legalize them? I hope not!

The child that is aborted is an innocent victim! Most abortions are for convenience. When a child is inconvenient aborting it is easy.

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78ldchian(56 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

i know you guys usually see me on other threads crying about how tough being an autoworker was but i have other opinions too. here's mine on abortion.

the question is what's reasonable. is it reasonable to abort a baby at any time during the pregnancy? of course not. is it reasonable to force a woman to have a baby if she was raped or is at risk? no.

but in extreme circumstances, abortion is the answer. and the government tried mandating against activities before. look at prohibition. people still drank and the underbelly of society made a fortune. does anyone believe if laws are passed against abortion women won't get them anyway?

and here's a note to youngstown strong. you forgot to mention the most important multi-racial person of all--halle berry. i'm mad at her, though. she hasn't responded to a single one of my emails, phone calls, letters, postcards, telegrams or mind transmissions.

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79dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Stan: Yes my mom did have that right. But you see I know my mom would not go back in time and change anything. She would have still had me.

You also keep avoiding the question if the role were reversed! Are you afraid your views would change?

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80YoungstownMom(46 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Idchian: Do not fret yourself over Halle Berry. She is a snob. She probably did not get your mind transmissions, it is hard without a brain. (For all those Halle Berry lovers, this is only a joke. Please do not get your panties in a twist).

DMETS: I have to support what your are saying. I am in a total agreement with you on this. Some men are easy to say that abortion is wrong when it is not them that are faced with this issue. I still beleive it is wrong, but it is not my place to tell someone what to do with their body. It is between them and their God. They are the ones who will be held accountable for it. Legal or not, people will find a way to have one, be it in a sterile, professional facility or with a hanger in the alley. It will not go away.

lebronjeremy: I did not get this info from a 527 ad or Fox news. I read it in the Washington post from an "actual" interview with President-elect Obama. It was in his own words that he felt a ban on partial-birth abortion was not something he was willing to pass because he felt that it was a step in banning roe V wade. His own words.

It should not matter what station I get my news. I do chose to watch Fox news over CNN. CNN is way to liberal for me and I do not agree with the way they chose to show the news. I do watch CNN, but Fox news is my choice. That does not make me any less of person or any less of person trying to make an educated decision on things. I do try to check my facts, if and when I can.

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81Youngstown_Strong(91 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

On the topic of whether or not it "matters where I get my news..." --

I am a registered independent. I am liberal on some issues and a bit conservative on others. But I live in reality and can honestly say that it does matter where you get your news. Newspapers nice but if you're unfamiliar with the author, it is tough to tell if they are writing from an objective view point. Facts, numbers and even interview quotes can be arranged to prove anyone's point.

Onto TV, when anchors have open biases (Sean Hannity, Campbell Brown, Allen Colmes, Greta Van Sustren, Megyn Kelly etc) and try peddling their opinions as news, it does in deed matter. Sadly, many people who watch these shows take these anchors opinions as "news."

I listed a mix of anchors from both Fox News and CNN for a reason. Like it or not, Fox News is one of the most biased news stations. MSNBC is equally if not more so biased. CNN, while some anchors have their opinions on the left and right, is one of the closest stations to being unbiased. Compared to Fox News where almost all of the anchors are biased, there is a clear difference. Did anyone watch Fox News on election night after Obama was projected the winner? It seemed like someone shot Brit Hume's dog.

I admit that I do watch O'Reilly and even Keith Olberman (who are both really biased) but I'm sure it is for the same reason people listen to Howard Stern, for shock-value and occasional humor... Not for news!

Overall though, two of the best news anchors who keep themselves objective are Anderson Cooper & Wolf Blitzer who both host very good news programs and both happen to be on CNN which is why I would recommend that station for anyone of any belief or party status.

YoungstownMom, to say that CNN is way too liberal to watch is to say America is way too liberal to live in. I'll give it to you that lately they do side with the liberal point more often but you will have to admit that lately so does America.

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82Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago


You seem to have a hangup against your mother aborting you. What makes you think that you are special and the the millions who have been aborted were suitable victims?

Would my view be the same if I was of a different gender? My values and reasoning don't condone the killing of the unborn. Why don't people take the child to term and give it up for adoption? It would be inconvenient for them. Killing the child is much easier. Lets face the facts! Most killings of the unborn are done for convenience.


As the slavery exhibition shows, something that one generation accepts readily enough is often seen as abhorrent by its descendants – so abhorrent, in fact, that people find it almost impossible to understand how it could have been countenanced in a supposedly civilised society.

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83lebronjeremy(16 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

YoungstownMom. Independent research showed that cnn was the most moderate. Fox being the most conservative, and msnbc being the most liberal. If cnn is too liberal for you, then you're pretty conservative.

I completely respect your decision to watch fox, but you have to understand that you are just feeding your bias. I do the same thing everytime I turn on Keith Olbermann. However, I don't get my news and my facts soley from him (although, he has proven to be factually acurrate 99% of the time). I check everything before I take a stand on it, and I won't argue unless I know I'm right because I don't like losing.

And it's good if you try to check your facts. Our republic functions best when our citizens are informed. In this case, I could see that the quote of Obama must have been taken out of context. He voted down that measure because of other stuff on the bill.

A bill could be presented like this: "funding education for special needs children by cutting medicare spending." If you vote for the bill, your opponent will say you wanted to cut medicare. If you vote against it he/she will say you voted against funding for special needs education.

My point is, it's all in how you interpret the bill. Obama saw those bills as something that would eventually lead to the abolishment of Roe v Wade. Others saw it as him supporting infanticide.

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84lebronjeremy(16 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Stan abortion has like always existed. If my mother didn't abort me back in 1989 the first time around, she wouldn't the second time. Your arguement is weak.

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85YoungstownMom(46 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Youngstown Strong: Believe me I do not base my opinions on what is said on FoxNews. I guess I am conservative on a lot of things. I am also somewhat liberal on others. I do feel America is starting to lean a little to being very liberal. Sometimes it feels like we, collectively, are losing our morals and the accountability for ourselfs. I am not saying that it is the fault of the liberals, but I guess I associate more with the conservative side and SOME of their beliefs.

I do watch Anderson Cooper and Wolf Blitzer. I enjoy them very much. I do a lot of reading on CNN.Com. I know that Fox news anchors do most of it with their opinions, but that is why America is so great. If we stop people for expressing their opinions, and fox news anchors never say that it is anything but their opinions, then we might as well have a socialist government. You also have to admit that sometimes with a liberal view, it is teaching our children that being accountable and morals are not issues that they should deal with. If they do something wrong, it is a product of society rather than a person doing something wrong.

Lebronjeremy: I agree with you about our republic functions best when our citizens are informed. But you also have to admit, in this day and age, people will automatically state their opinion on something and will only listen to what supports their opinion. A lot of people today will not look at both sides before they make their opinion. We unfortunatley have a society full of people unwilling to admit they are fallible and will stick to their guns regardless of the truth or information.

It was also stated that the media (more specifically CNN) was giving Obama more favorable light than McCain because CNN bigwigs backed him. This was stated in all major papers on all major news channels. So any "news" station can manipulate their views and opinions as news. As a concerned citizen of the USA, we must make it our duty to hear both sides of the story before we make an opinion.

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86lebronjeremy(16 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

YoungstownMom, the issue with Obama looking better on cnn is very complicated. Firstly, the media always favors the winner. They did this in 2000 and 2004. Secoondly, it's hard to say anything bad about Obama because his campaign never made any mistakes. They never got off message; they never changed the message; they never leaked; they never made inflammatory, derogatory remaks about McCain, like calling him a socialist, terrorist, anti-American. The media loves conflict, and there wasn't any conflict when it came to Obama.

Anyone who couldn't see that his campaign was disasterous was only seeing what they wanted to see.

And I don't think that hearing both sides of the story is the only way to properly produce an opinion. If one could possibly objectively listen to both sides of the same story his or her head would explode. This only works for rhetoric, and even then, one's bias is going to ommit what they don't want to hear. I look at the actual facts: the entire quote in the context, the extremely complicated senate bills, and the statistics (although numbers are easily manipulated).

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87lebronjeremy(16 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

I meant to say hearing both sides of the story ISN'T the only way to develop an opinion

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88Barry_Soetoro(3 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Our country is in so much trouble that race really is not an issue. Yes, Obama's victory is a civil rights milestone, but his race has also served as a distraction from the real issues that neither party wants to address, e.g.:

The national debt
Loss of our manufacturing base
Loss of civil liberties (Patriot Act)
Inflation of the money supply by Federal Reserve
Open borders

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89dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Stan: I am not hung up against my mother aborting me. You keep questioning me about it. So I keep giving you answers to your questions. I also think you like to just read what you want to on posts and pick out thing s that make a person look bad. I said I am ALL for ADOPTION! I am also for abortion not being used as a form of birth controll. I also said the right should not be taken away because there are reasons like rape, insect, and when a mother's life is at risk where I can completely understand ending a pregnancy. I also stated there is NOWAY I would ever or could ever have one myself. So please quit trying to make me out they way you are! If I knew a woman now who was going to get an abortion, I would try to talk her into having the baby! I would even adopt the baby just so he/she have a good chance at life. So as you can see I am NOT a heartless person!

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90Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago


"Stan abortion has like always existed. If my mother didn't abort me back in 1989 the first time around, she wouldn't the second time. Your arguement is weak."

(The point was,would your being aborted leave a void in your mothers life? In anyones life? You have experienced life. Now look back and view life with your being removed. How many voids have been created by the slaughter of the unborn?)

Slavery,murder,rape and robbery have always existed and moral people detest these acts. Should we decriminalize them? Abortion is a crime that has been legitimized here in the USA. So you suppoert abortion for others but not if you would be the victim?

Now getting back to, "Thousands cheer first black president". It is extremely sad that Barack Obama champions the killing of the most defenseless in America. How many will be slaughtered under his watch?

A Dangerous Time to be a Black Baby by Anne Hendershott

Nearly half of all African American pregnancies end in abortion.


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91Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

So you are all for adoption? There is a lack of continuity here as the aborted ones are dead. You seem to shut out the consequences of abortion and try to find valid reasons. Most abortions are for the sake of convenience. The unborn are viewed as an inconvenience. Abortion is death and the robbing of the experiences of life for the unborn.

Until the unborn are viewed as members of our society they will continue to be persecuted by abortion. Our future is those yet to be born. Abortion is killing our future. We are here because those before us gave birth and nurtured their young.

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92dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

You make me laugh so hard Stan! I did say they need to make it so abortion is not USED as a FORM of BIRTH CONTROLL, which in your terms is called CONVENIENCE. I do beleive it can not be take away in cases of rape, insect, or if the woman's life is at risk. What is so wrong with that. Would you want to carry around a child that some stranger forced upon you, or one your father, brother or cousin did? Try putting yourself in the mind set of that woman, and then tell me you are ok with telling that woman to deal with it!

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93Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago


Now how many abortions out of one million do you suppose were done because of incest or because the mothers life was at risk ? Abortion is big business and people don't mind killing their own to bankroll it !

BTW do you by any chance work at an abortion clinic ? You seem very supportive of their services . What is really amusing are your lame excuses for this procedure.



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94dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Stan: I do not or could NEVER work at a place like that! Do you actually know how to read? Honestly? Do you not realize I said that it SHOULD NOT BE USE AS A FORM OF BIRTH CONTROLL? Are you only picking out the things you want to read. I am simply stating that the law should not be taken away ever for the other reasons stated in many of my other posts. If you happen to take them away, and a woman has an ectopic pregnacy? Do you consider that an abortion? Knowing in cases caught late, it has to be terminated cause both the mother and baby would die?

Your right I am very supportive of the service for those woman with either medical situations where their life is at stake, or in cases of rape and insect! NOT AS A FORM OF BIRTH CONTROLL!!!

You need to wake up and read my whole posts, and quit trying to put words and ideas on here that have never been even a thought in my mind!

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95Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago


"I am simply stating that the law should not be taken away ever"

I read you very well. Just as any good liberal you maintain the right to kill the unborn but your lack of compassion for their deaths shows !



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96dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Stan: You just do not get it at all. You are on your high horse about abortion! You do not read me "very well" cause I do not beleive or would ever "kill" an unborn child. But you do not see the true facts and points into why abortion can not be taken away. All you look at is the right of the unborn child. You do not look at the right of the pregnant woman. You just do not get it, and never will. I will agree to disagree with you on this topic. You are never going to change my mind, even with you trying to make me out to be a monster, and I will never make you see that medically it is sometimes needed and should not be taken away ever. That a person's privacy is a right we have in the USA. That means everyone, not just who government choose it for.

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97Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago


You as a cheerleader for the abortion industry do not get it at all ! What gives you or any person the right to slaughter the unborn ? Privacy ? Right ! We attacked and burnt to death the Branch Davidians at Waco who were trying to be private . Yet we allow abortion mills to flourish and bring immigrants who hate us into the USA because we have a labor shortage. Makes sense doesn't it ?

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98dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Stan: I see you are still going to argue with me over this. I do get it. And I am NOT a cheerleader for abortion. Let me make another statemenet. I think there should be a ban on guns then, cause the people who buy them use them to kill. I also beleive someone who has killed a living breathing human should not be able to be put to death. No, sorry. I do beleive it. I know that if a woman was to have a medical condition in which she and the unborn child would die, she should have a right to abort. Why lose two lives? You see every situation is like a double edged sword. You only see your own side. I do see both sides. I do not beleive a healthy girl or woman who oops got pregnant should be able to get an abortion, in their cases they should choose adoption. But for a girl or woman who is raped, pragnant due to insect, or her life is at risk, should very much have the option to abort. Question if a woman is raped and goes and get a DNC do you consider that aborting too?

You, Stan, said you can read. Please read what I posted very carefully, read it more then once, and you will see a am not a cheerleader for abortion, merely a person who thinks everything through before I give my opinion.

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99dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

A labor shortage? No there is not, the companies breing in the immigrants cause they don't have to pay them crap to work. They don't have to pay even minimum wage. So with that satement you made sound like you only want children to be brought into this world to be work mules? Not only that, maybe if the past couple generations would not have been raise to be spoiled brats, and actually get out and worked, that would help out alot. But no mommy and daddy let them do as they please. They also buy them everything they want.

Plus some of the pregnancy aborted would not have even been able to function, or would have never been carried to full term cause they would have quit growing, and would have killed the mother. So where does that leave the work force you are so worried about?

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100Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

"You only see your own side. "
You seem to do what you accuse me of!

Now out of the millions that have been aborted how many would have serious medical problems if carried to full term? How many would have caused death to their mothers?

No labor shortage? Go to the vineyards and orchards on the Lake Erie shore and tell them that. How about Whitehouse Farms which are local, amongst other places.

You sure seem to favor an open season on the unborn. So we as a society have no place for them?


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101dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Stan: I must first off state i am NOT in favor of open season on the unborn! I have stated over and over again that I am not, so you must pick and choose what you read!

I did choose life. I have been pregnant twice, and I am very blessed to have two beautiful children. I do see your side, but you do not realize if abortion becomes illegal, those woman who do have medical problems, raped, or insect, no matter what the number is, have no choice.

As for a shortage at the vineyards and orchards, and the white house fruit farms. It not that we don't have the people to work there. it is that the people are spoiled and don't want to do that job. The problem is the generation have gotten worse and are lazy and expect everything handed to them. So do you really expect them to go out and do that kind labor, one that requires you to actually work? I think not!

So let me ask you Stan: Are you against the death penality? Are you a true prolifer? Or just against a woman right to choose?

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102jfuze0905(82 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago


How can you even decipher the mundane drivel flowing through the fingertips of dmets?

That, sir, is an amazing feat

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103dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Jfuze0905: You just need to keep to yourself! Don't try to insult me. If you have something to say about the topic, state it. If not don't come on here trying to cut someone down! I am not a stupid or careless person, as you stated in the "big" words you used to make yourself look smarter!

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104Stan(9923 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago


"Stan: I must first off state i am NOT in favor of open season on the unborn!"

Unrestricted abortion is providing an open season on the unborn!

"So let me ask you Stan: Are you against the death penality? Are you a true prolifer? Or just against a woman right to choose?"

To be honest some killings repulse me and if I was on the guilty ones jury an execution could very well be in that persons future. I don't feel that waiting years for justice to be served is true justice. For the death penalty to be a deterent to murder the public and the killer should still have a vivid memory of the crime. I however can't envision why the unborn are slaughtered with very little outcry while a murderer gets to live for years on appeals. Lets provide the same rights to the unborn. The unborn is executed without even a trial.

Killing a child before he or she is born is so very wrong.

A time to be born, a time to die
A time to plant, a time to reap
A time to kill, a time to heal
A time to laugh, a time to weep

How many weep for the killing of the unborn?

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105dmets(575 comments)posted 7 years, 7 months ago

Are you serious I said there should be some laws in place so that woman can NOT use it as a form of birth controll. So how is that unrestricted? I think that would make my views very restricted, don't you?

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