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Boardman, Austintown join forces for water war



Published: Wed, May 28, 2008 @ 12:31 a.m.

By Ed Runyan

“We are not going to sit back and wait for Youngstown to strike.”

Lisa Oles

Austintown trustee

Austintown trustees expect Youngstown to deny water to businesses if there’s no annexation.

BOARDMAN — A strategy of waiting to see what Youngstown does next in its attempt to impose an income tax on workers in Austintown and part of Boardman may take a back seat to a more aggressive position, Austintown Trustee Lisa Oles says.

Trustees from both townships plan to meet at 4 p.m. Monday at the Boardman Government Center, 8299 Market St., to discuss their options with “several lawyers from Columbus” and possibly with a representative from Aqua Ohio, Oles said.

The agenda calls for talks with lawyers to be conducted in closed session, under provisions of the Ohio Open Meetings Act that allow private discussions of “pending or imminent court action.”

Oles said Austintown trustees don’t plan to take any action at the meeting, but they will take action before Youngstown has a chance to “launch their attack on us.”

“As a result of this meeting, there will be action one way or another,” Oles said. “We are not going to sit back and wait for Youngstown to strike,” Oles said.

Austintown trustees, in a public meeting held May 13 in Austintown Middle School, said they are bracing for a legal battle with Youngstown as soon as this summer.

Trustees said they will sue the city if it required any business along the Austintown-Youngstown border to annex to keep its Youngstown water.

Austintown trustees said such annexation would become a test case that could go to the Ohio Supreme Court to determine how much control the city has over areas of Austintown and Boardman that receive their water from the city.

Austintown trustees expect the city to threaten to shut off water to such a business if it refuses to annex.

The annexation issue arose this year after news that the city was proposing a Joint Economic Development District with the two townships that would result in a 2 percent income tax being charged to workers whose companies in Austintown and Boardman use the city’s water. An additional 0.25 percent income tax could be imposed by the township, under the proposal.

In exchange, the city would reduce its income tax from 2.75 percent to 2.25 percent, reduce its surcharge on Austintown and Boardman water customers from 40 percent to 20 percent and provide additional economic development for the two townships.

Youngstown, for its part, has not threatened to annex the townships if they don’t embrace the JEDD plan.

Oles said that discussions between Boardman and Austintown so far suggest that the townships will be working in concert on whatever actions the townships take next.

She added that remarks by Canfield Trustee Bill Reese at the public meeting suggest that Canfield Township should also be included in any strategy sessions.

The June 2 meeting will focus on options available to Boardman and Austintown, including incorporation of the townships into a city to prevent Youngstown from annexing any part of the townships, and forming the townships’ own water district, Oles said.


Comments

1Tugboat(759 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Again, Y-town has only twice the population of A-town or Bdmn but three times the cops. How can Y-town justify any of their proposals to the courts without first being able to prove that they have been reasonable and prudent with their expenditures???

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2JRBYoungstown(44 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Hey old man why dont you just move out of the valley if your so threatened by Youngstown. I cant believe people are so upset over this proposal its ridiculous, the townships would get cheaper water and have youngstown's resources at its hands. At least the city has sidewalks and street lights, something the majority of the townships do not. Maybe cooperation would go farther than drawn out expensive legal battles.

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3Bull_Chip(170 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

JRB, I am sure you “cant believe people are so upset over this proposal”. For those of us who are small business operators, 2 ½ percent income tax in exchange for NOTHING makes us less competitive as both suppliers of products and services AND as employers.

I am sure the concept of striving to be profitable in this area is incomprehensible to you. At the best you are an employee (minimum wage?) or more likely on a government program as an employee/welfare/retiree/student. When I lay off your mother/father/brother/sister because I must cut my cost to pay the extra taxes or I am moving the business out of the area, maybe you will “believe” and understand.

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4Peanuthead(31 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Youngstown has done exactly what it didn't want to do. Draw attention to itself as a failure that no one around it wants anything to do with. Congrats Jay, you are now the Mayor of a failing city that has nowhere to go but down. Way to alienate your neighbors. You proposed a plan, we rejected it, and now we wont sit idly by while you threaten us from behind your curtain of bullets and drugs. Enjoy.

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5sirlancealott(3 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Lets face it guys and girls this is racial. Boardman, Austintown and Canfield are concerned because there are too many blacks. In their eyes this is about poverty and crime and surely they do not want to be associated with Y- Town.

I hope Y- town wakes up and turns the water off.

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6Peanuthead(31 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I hope they do as well, then the townships will no doubt sue and probably end up owning the water dept. Then Jay will be run out of town for playing such a terrible hand.

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7Bull_Chip(170 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Lady Lott, not racial at all. This is all about money and extortion. Do you realize that Y-Town is majority white? Jay just wants to export his poverty by bringing area workers down by confiscatory taxes with NO benefit in increased services.

Annexation is about crime and violence. Jay’s planned last resort annexation is limited to primarily the business areas. He doesn’t want currently suburban voters to throw he and his cronies out in the street. He only wants to bleed those that do work to support the bankrupt city government.

Face it, not racial, Y-Town is a majority WHITE city, it is all about M-O-N-E-Y!

TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION – if you don’t pay taxes, you wouldn’t understand!

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8apollo(1227 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

It is indeed about the money. Would the city turn the water off? Doubtful since they need it to operate. The problem is the city is seeing red, as in debt, and can't raise an already highest in the state income tax. Plus, many of the residents are unemployed or retired and on social security. Since the city workers are unwilling to take wage and benefit concessions to balance the budget and government always needs MORE money for the obvious reasons, (poor fiscal management, wasteful tax abatements for businesses doomed to fail) the need for more revenue is almost endless.

As for the number of police compared to the suburbs Tugboat, I don't see much logic in that since Youngstowns crime rate is infinitely higher than the suburbs.

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9sirlancealott(3 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I know that Y- Town is mostly white idoit, its still about race, poverty and crime. Its always the case, whites never admitting to racism. This is not real world you are always in dential. Look at the current voting results in Ohio. Obama will win the nomination, but you morons will vote for McCain because you cannot stand for a 1/2 black man to be president.

Watch the world go to dust when this happens

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10Peanuthead(31 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

McCain will win the election, Boardman and Austintown won't deal with Jaybird, and the Browns still won't win the super bowl....these are all things we already know...what was your point again? oh yea....race....well the world won't turn to dust anytime soon because of the race of one man in office. Just calm down and deal with the situation that is at hand. That being that Jay can't find any money in his own city so he needs to put his hand in the pocket of others to get some $$ for wasting on more church pal salaries. What I won't say is that race isn't an issue. It is, but just because of the people who come into surrounding communities from Youngstown and steal from our stores, berate our citizens, and basically just act like idiots with no respect. They have been raised by children, so they act like them for their entire lives. Find a solution for that, sir. I refuse to condone giving Youngstown and its idiot financial squad a dime, let alone a few million. They are the most fiscally irresponsible city on the planet.

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11sirlancealott(3 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Now I know why you call yourself peanuthead, I like Moron wrapped in an idiot better.

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12Peanuthead(31 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

what a brilliant argument. thanks for playing but you lose.

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13JRBYoungstown(44 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Ok bull chip im a college grad not some low life cut corners pay my employees jack sh** looser small businessman who failed at a real career. You small business people should pay your employees a living wage before building another wing on your canfield house. and i currently pay my 2 1/2 percent to the city and dont cry like a little girl about it. Maybe u should move your business preferably out of this town nay state or country, and take your bourgeoise ideas with you!

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14LONGCOOLWOMAN(11 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

It's a shame that Youngstown is just so "JEDED" by the 11.2 million that they don't have to pay for the Chevy Center that they're trying to "hose" outlying communities to pay for their debt. That's bad city management or lack of it, apparently Jay ain't the way!

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15NachoCheese(161 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Save the money on the lawsuit - no need to make the lawyers rich on this. INCORPORATE NOW! Focus your efforts on what YOU can do for yourself and screw these greedy city folk. Get this over once and for all.

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16Cbarzak(110 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I'll be interested to see how Boardmanites and Austintowners feel when they become a city and suddenly they are taxed more for the upkeep of the various amenities that go along with being a city that they lean on the state for as townships at the moment. Whatever they do, they'll be paying more taxes than they are as townships. Since they don't want to work with Youngstown and shore up the entire region, they'll still fork over the money in the end to be their own cities and, in effect, be in exactly the same position.

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17apollo(1227 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

More scare tactics Cbarzak? Boardman could easily administer a sales tax that would generate revenues from non-Boardmanites! Kind of like Jay and you want to do to Boardman and Austintown. You know taxation without representation! Youngstown is simply trying to pick the pockets of the suburbs because they don't have other options for revenue generation. As another poster said, they have that wonderful Chevy Centre debt that is going to weigh like a ball and chain around their ankles. I guess they figure that if the suburbanites aren't going to attend the events there thus helping to pay for it, they'll make us pay another way. Bend over suburbs and grab those ankles. Boardman, Austintown, and Canfield would be much better off without Youngstown. Yippee offer us a $50 savings off our water bills in exchange for $1000 more in taxes. What a bargain!!!

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18Tugboat(759 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Apollo wrote: "As for the number of police compared to the suburbs Tugboat, I don't see much logic in that since Youngstowns crime rate is infinitely higher than the suburbs."

With three times the cops, the crime rate should be infinitely lower. There's apparently an efficiency problem.
Just proves that more cops doesn't always equate to less crime.

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19Cbarzak(110 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Scare tactics? I'm not sure what you mean. You seem to think you understand anything I write, but mostly you already have in mind a belief about what motivates other people. Largely, this tells other people more about you than it does about anyone else.

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20Peanuthead(31 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

CBARZAK,
I'll gladly pay more taxes in my city of boardman as long as the money doesnt go to Jaybird to waste.. our boardman taxes will pay for 100% boardman, not 70% youngstown and 30% boardman like Jaybirds plan. Jay williams is a criminal.

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21apollo(1227 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

CBarzak making bogus claims that somehow Boardman residents will be taxed as high or higher under a plan to become a city versus being raped by Youngstown is a scare tactic. But, that is just a mirage. Boardman as a city will have numerous options to taxation unlike Youngstown which is out of options except to pick the pockets of suburbanites.

Tugboat, I'm surprised that you think urban areas should have lower crime rates with more cops. The economics of Youngstown drives the crime rate not the number of officers. Nearly all urban areas have more police per capita than the suburbs and still also have more crime. The wealthier an area, the less crime there is. The less crime, the less need for law enforcement.

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22Bull_Chip(170 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

JRB, wow, a lot of insecurity and hostility there! I guess as a former Big Ten faculty member in the sciences who left academia to make some real money, I am a failure. I guess since I surround myself with intelligent people and make sure they are paid a fair wage, I am a failure.

Yea, the kind of failure most non-liberal arts college students strive to be! Your bitterness and animosity tend to indicate that you are in a low/no paying job. That would explain why 2 ¾% tax (not 2 ½% as you stated) means nothing to you. In the real world, the ¼% means $250 per $100,000 in annual income. At $12,000 the ¼% only means $30 a year, I can see why you don’t know how much your taxes are & you don’t really care.

Thank you for being the token socialist I can point to when I need to illustrate the cause of failure of socialist and communist systems.

Lady Lott, your racist apologetic rants are non sequitur, therefore they deem no response.

May the JEDD die the same ignominious political death as our now former Attorney General.

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23Cbarzak(110 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

apollo, no scare tactic at all. If you're scared of what I said, that's your response to what will happen. Peanuthead's response to what I said is more appropriate. He/she sees that even if what I say does happen, he/she is willing to pay that price rather than work with another part of the region to bolster the economy here.

You, on the other hand, are constantly on the defense because, as I said, you already hold beliefs about what people think and mean without actually listening (or comprehending what you're reading.)

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24Peanuthead(31 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Id rather move than give Jaybird more money to throw away into the gutter, Im all for youngstown thriving, but to give him money because he and the rest of youngstown is too lazy and ignorant with their own is just moronic. Working with anotrher part of the region is one thing, just giving them money to burn is another. Dont put words in my mouth.

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25Peanuthead(31 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Bolstering an economy by helping a city who continues to make inexcusable financial decisions.....hmmm sounds like a plan. Bolstering an economy by bailing out people who ride into the burbs and rob and steal from businesses who are struggling in the first place.....hmmm sounds like a plan. Bolstering the economy by continuing to support the already out of control public assistance programs that pay unwed baby machines so they can get their hair did and buy hoopties and continue to not even look for a job because they are too busy making more babies for more free money.....hmmm sounds like a plan. You sound like the type that should run for mayor of youngstown.

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26Peanuthead(31 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

how do you like words in your mouth?

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27Cbarzak(110 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I love words in my mouth. It's part of being human.

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28Cbarzak(110 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Excellent, thanks.

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29JRBYoungstown(44 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

I really take offense when people say I'm on welfare because I dont agree with your point of view BullChip, I do understand taxes because I pay them. When I worked my way through college, yes I WORKED FOR MY EDUCATION!, I worked for a variety of dirtball small business owners who would cheat not only their employees but the government. (probably their mothers if they had a chance) I feel no sympathy for small business owners having to pay their fair share. Without our society you would never be able to run a business in the first place. Pay your share just like your employess do. Stop crying and wake up to the world around you. Oh and I seriously doubt you left acadamia to run a small business in the mahoning valley.

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30apollo(1227 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Yeah Barzak I also love the condescending tone like you are intellectually superior to me. Now that's funny. But, if you think becoming a city will cost Boardman residents more than the JEDDS, who am I compared to the all knowing you!

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31Cbarzak(110 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

It's not meant to be a condescending tone, apollo. And I don't know if it would cost more than if it were JEDDS. But there is a reality to becoming a city that means there will be new taxes to do that. That's all.

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32Peanuthead(31 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Apollo you need to write a book to be on the same level as barzak the great.

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33Cbarzak(110 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Okay, this has devolved. I'm not surprised.

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34Bull_Chip(170 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

JRB posted “I really take offense when people say I'm on welfare”.

As I said before –“JRB, wow, a lot of insecurity and hostility there!” I never said you WERE on welfare, Did you think I did because that coincides with your self-image? I did say that for anyone with a low income, income taxes did not have the same significance in terms of total dollars.

You also said “Pay your share just like your employess do.” First of all, they are employees, not “employess”. I most assuredly do, to the point of paying more taxes than the average income of WORKING people in the Valley. I pay proportionately more than my co-workers/employees do, I only ask for equal representation in how it is spent. Jay’s extortion plan prevents me from having any say what so ever! This discussion is NOT about anything except the confiscatory money grab by Jay. It is not my responsibility to fund the excesses and corruption of Y-Town.

JRB further said “I seriously doubt you left acadamia to run a small business in the mahoning valley”. I won’t bother addressing the continued poor spelling by a self-defined college graduate, it is just plain painful to see. “Acadamia”, hmm, that does have an interesting ring to it. Any way, I grant you this one. I spent time as a consultant who was owned by a Fortune 25 corporation before migrating to the Valley.

Now JRB, calm down, step away from the keyboard, cover up the pictures of Mao & Stalin, read the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution and the back of a dollar bill.

Just a question, how do you view performance based compensation? Do you ascribe to “from each according to their ability to each according to their need”? Maybe “from each according to their ability, to each according to their work”?

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35gman881(8 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

For everyone that has something bad to say about Youngstown: you are all part of the Greater Youngstown Area and will be recognized as a resident of Youngstown to anyone not from the area. Get over it! Anything you say about Youngstown you are saying about yourselves, deal with it!

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36apollo(1227 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

CBarzak, it has devolved because you caused it to devolve. Instead of having a debate with facts, you insinuate that becoming a city is going to cost us residents much more than the JEDDS. I guess that's a distinct possibility but at least the money would be going to Boardman rather than most of it going to Youngstown which has shown a propensity of poor fiscal management. Then to top it off, you make further insinuations as to your superior intellect in comparison to people you don't know. That's like saying my penis is bigger than yours, very childish and certainly unproveable on an anonymous bulletin board.

Why would suburbanites want to provide millions of their hard earned dollars to Youngstown? A city that is in decay that has shown time after time its stupidity in spending taxpayer dollars? A city full of corruption, crime, failing schools, and little future. Some people make a false assumption that the suburbs need Youngstown. The only thing we need them for is water and even that is tenuous.

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37Tugboat(759 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Apollo wrote: "Tugboat, I'm surprised that you think urban areas should have lower crime rates with more cops. The economics of Youngstown drives the crime rate not the number of officers."

Apollo: This is about efficiency. The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it(Peel). Boardman is as busy as Y-town but why don't you hear stories of having to wait 2 hours when you call the Boardman police while they have one-third the manpower the city does? In general, what I am saying is that before Y-town attempts to get into my wallet they need to prove fiscal responsibility and efficient use of resources.

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38apollo(1227 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Tugboat, I've had direct dealings with the YPD and I'll agree, they weren't efficient. But, that was 25+ years ago so maybe (doubtful) they've improved. I'm not sure about Boardman and Youngstown being equally busy, I don't know YPD stats.

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39Recentcollegegrad(3 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

Have any of you actually read the JEDD agreement proposed by ytown? The Brookings Institute is referenced several times and it is obvious that the Mahoning Valley is ONE region economically, yet has several political boundaries that WASTE time and resources competing over taxes (through jobs/property tax/whatever). The only entitiy that succeeds is the county with sales tax (which Austintown and Boardman currently have the luxury of getting most of the revenue from).

At any rate, I would love to see the naysayers actually look at Youngstown not as a leach or a problem, but as the reason for the valley's existence. If you are all so smart then come up with a solution for Youngstown instead of bashing it left and right.

Yes, people fled ytown for the burbs years ago and never looked back. Boardman and Austintown are not sustainable, either, though. They are suburbs that require a car to get around and a lot of businesses locate there because building on farmland/forest is cheaper than in the city. Boardman and Austintown workers currently don't have to pay income tax either, so it's cheaper overall than ytown.

Trust me, as a Boardman High School grad of 01, I have much pride in my community but can see that everyone in the burbs of ytown has a "not in my back yard" mentality that has left our region's problems concentrated in our beloved city. Suburbanites, I ask you to reconsider your obviously "better than thou" mentality and look to the beauty and culture and POTENTIAL that Youngstown has. Blabbing about murders and economic decay is the easy way out. Why not talk about solutions, as youngstown is trying to do, and the valley overall will be much stronger economically and socially as opposed to a socioeconomically segregated mess.

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40tookie(64 comments)posted 6 years, 1 month ago

If anyone wants to look at the success of communities working together just take a short trip to Akron where JEDDS are working for both the city and its neighboring townships and cities. Their economy is growing and the townships are singing the praises of Akron and its mayor. Akron is one of the few areas of Ohio that is seeing growth. Austintown, Boardman and the city need to start a dialogue for a JEDD program that works for all three communities and boosts jobs for our area. Enough with the negative. We can't afford it anymore.

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