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Grandfather accused of gun threat at ballfield



Published: Thu, June 12, 2008 @ 12:02 a.m.

By Ed Runyan

A Struthers coach said the armed man in Austintown threatened to shoot him.

AUSTINTOWN — A 64-year-old township man accused of pulling a handgun on a baseball coach Tuesday has been charged with aggravated menacing, police said.

The episode happened during an argument near the ball field where his grandson was playing.

Dallas D. Lough, of Westchester Drive, pleaded innocent to the first-degree misdemeanor Wednesday in County Court in Austintown. He remains free on bond. If convicted on the charge, he could get up to six months in jail.

Austintown police said Lough was attending a baseball game between PONY League teams of 13- and 14-year-olds from Austintown and Struthers at Koch Field on North Raccoon Road.

While his grandson was pitching, Lough was standing behind the backstop and being vocal enough to get a warning from the home-plate umpire to stop, police said.

The other umpire, who was positioned in the field, later told Lough that he had to leave the backstop area because he was being disruptive.

“He wasn’t being obnoxious, but he was talking every pitch,” Todd Shaffer of Austintown, the umpire who asked Lough to leave the backstop area, said by telephone Wednesday.

One of the things Lough was doing was making ball and strike calls before the home-plate umpire had a chance to make his call, Shaffer said.

Lough walked from the backstop toward Raccoon Road, where words were exchanged between Lough and one or more coaches from Struthers, police said.

One of the coaches, a 36-year-old Struthers man, told police he began talking with Lough down a hill from the field near the Struthers dugout, and Lough pulled a handgun out of his pants pocket and threatened to shoot him if he came any closer.

The coach yelled up to the field that Lough had a gun.

“I just told the kids to go to the dugouts until I could see what was going on,” Shaffer said.

Lough then walked to his car and drove south on Raccoon Road, where Austintown police arrested him at gunpoint. They said they recovered a loaded semi-automatic pistol from the waistband of Lough’s pants.

Lough had a valid concealed-carry permit in his wallet, police said.

Once Lough was apprehended, Shaffer asked the Struthers baseball players whether they wanted to continue the game, and they did. But the Struthers parents decided to end the game at that point, Shaffer said.

Shaffer said he has umpired dozens of games in recent years in which Lough has been present and he has never had to speak to him before about his behavior.

In eight years of umpiring, Shaffer said he’s never experienced anything like this. “I hope never to see anything like that again,” he added.

Lough is due back in court at 6 p.m. Sept. 15. He was released from the police department Tuesday evening after posting bond.

runyan@vindy.com


Comments

1apollo(1227 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Yeah allowing Ohio residents to carry concealed weapons is a good thing....NOT! Now let all the gun nuts claim that concealed carry will prevent thousands of crimes! LOL. This is the more likely outcome of concealed carry.

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2OhioCHL(1 comment)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Among his other problems the old fellow 'broke leather' when the situation did not warrant it. I was trained to only draw if truly necessary, and if its necessary to draw it is probably necessary to fire. A gun is not a magic talisman to go 'booga-booga-boo' and make the bad guy run away.

Also, what was the coach doing trying to talk with guy when he was leaving? We used to own a bar, and when you toss someone and tell them to go, you let them go. No, 'last words' from you, no rubbing it in, the big thing is to get them out as quietly and quickly as possible with a minimum of fuss. I have a feeling the old man was complying and Mr. Motormouth coach escalated the situation again. If I was a 64 year old man and some thirty-something was getting hostile with me I'd feel threatened. Just a hunch... It sounds like a motormouth coach was being a jerk and was feeling like a big man until the senior citizen felt threatened and drew his weapon. Mr.'I can bench 400#' then realized he can't out run a bullet and got scared. If this is the case, I hope the old man gets the charges dropped.

I'm not saying the CHL holder was right, but I think there is more to this story than is in this article.

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3sfrogg(9 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

FIRST, CONCEALED CARRIERS ARE HUMANS THAT CAN MAKE MISTAKES. JUST BECAUSE THERE IS ONE IDIOT DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE ALL IDIOTS. YOU KNOW THE PERSON WAS NOT USING BETTER JUDGEMENT IF HE WAS CARRYING A WEAPON TO A CHILDRENS OUTING. THERE IS NO NEED FOR GUNS AT A KIDS BASEBALL GAME OR ANY OTHER KIDS EVENT. I HAVE A LICENSE TO CARRY, I AM A MOTHER AND AN INSTRUCTOR FOR CONCEALED CARRY. I CAN TEACH THE PROPER WAY TO HANDLE, FIRE,CARRY AND LAWS PERTAINING TO, BUT I CAN NOT TEACH JUDGEMENT.

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4ohio67(1 comment)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

I believe that a story should be confirmed completely by both sides before it is published and to get all the facts and truths.

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5henryviii1509(274 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

isn't it illegal to carry a firearm to 'a sporting event' whether or not you have a permit?

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6sfrogg(9 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

IN THE STATE OF OHIO IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO CARRY A GUN TO A SPORTING EVENT, UNLESS THEY SELL LIQUOR ON THE PREMISES. I THINK MOST MAJOR PARKS FOR SPORTING EVENTS SELL LIQUOR SO THERE YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO CARRY. ANY ACTIVITY ON SCHOOL PROPERTY IN THE SCHOOL SAFTEY ZONE YOU CAN NOT CARRY.
DOES ANY ONE KNOW WHAT KOCH FIELDS RULES ARE?

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7apollo(1227 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

The problem with concealed carry is that many of the people who carry are unstable. Even if a coach is making threatening remarks that isn't a justifiable reason to pull a gun on him. The only justification for deadly force or threat of deadly force is imminent danger to life or limb. Do we really want to return to the days of the wild west? Is it really necessary for the few times they are needed? Or is it more of a "makes them feel tough" mentality? In this case I think the Grandfather should be shown the inside of a jail cell for 30 days.

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8sfrogg(9 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Well your comments would have merit if you did not run off at the mouth. I am sure the sheriff agrees with you when he issues all these unstable people a license. GIVE ME A BREAK. The people who are getting their license are smart enough to learn the laws and saftey. TOUGH has nothing to do with it. People that get their license are the ones who while showing a house was attacked, or had been robbed in their home three times, or went to help someone after an accident only to have the guy attack them. IT IS NECESSARY FOR THE ONE TIME!!! I do not agree with what happenened at the ballfield. The gun should not have been there period.

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9apollo(1227 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Most sheriffs and police are against the concealed carry law. So the fact that they have to issue the permits isn't relevent. Most people who carry are far more likely to shoot themselves or a family member than a bad guy. They are far more likely to shoot an innocent bystander than the bad guy. The number of defenses from bad guys using a concealed carry weapon are minimal. Yet the NRA and its agents keep throwing up the second amendment as if the founding fathers wanted people in a civilized society to all carry weapons, they didn't.

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10sfrogg(9 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

YOUR RIGHT THEY WANTED THE CHOICE!! MORE PEOPLE WHO CARRY ARE LESS LIKELY TO SHOOT THEMSELVES OR A FAMILY MEMBER. YOU SHOULD NOT JUST MAKE STUFF UP. THE CHOICE TO CARRY LEGALLY IS WHAT THE FOUNDING FATHERS WANTED. NOT THE CHOICE TO BE A VICTIM EVERYTIME. AS FAR AS BAD GUYS USING A LICENSE AS A DEFENSE DOESN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY ARE THE BAD GUYS DUH!! BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THESE ARE HUMANS, NO MATTER THE KNOWLEDGE THEY CAN STILL MAKE MISTAKES. THERE ARE SHOOTINGS EVERYDAY BY PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE A LICENSE AND WHAT IS DONE ABOUT THAT. I DID THE ONLY THING I COULD DO I CHOSE TO PROTECT MY SELF. THE SUPREME COURT HAS RULED THAT THE POLICE DO NOT HAVE TO SHOW UP IF YOU CALL THEM. THEN WHAT, DO YOU PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY OR LEAVE IT IN THE HANDS OF THE BAD GUYS?

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11apollo(1227 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

More guns in a society NEVER makes it more safe. Europeans have much lower incidences of killings and what is the common thread? Few or no guns. America is the most violent society in the industrialized world and the cause is more and more guns. But keep typing in all caps, it makes your diatribe much more forceful.

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12sfrogg(9 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

WELL SINCE YOU CAN SOLVE THIS WHY NOT GET IT DONE. ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE THE GUNS AWAY FROM EVERYONE LOL! IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY SOME PEPOLE LEFT ENGLAND CAUSE THEY DID NOT LIKE IT THEIR. IF I WANT TO BE SURPRESSED I WILL GO VISIT ENGLAND. WE MAY BE A VIOLENT SOCIETY BUT LAST TIME I CHECKED CAR BOMBS WERE NOT GOING OFF. EVERY SOCIETY HAS SOMETHING WRONG WITH IT. IF YOU LIKE NOT HAVING THE CHOICE TO PROTECT YOURSELF MOVE TO ENGLAND!!PLEASE!!

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13henryviii1509(274 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

now, if every person carried a handgun, Sam Colt's promise of true equality would be realized.

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14sfrogg(9 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Now, I do not agree that every person should carry or own a gun. Those of us who do abide by the law should have the choice!!

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15apollo(1227 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Yeah, we need to return to the wild west days when real men solved their differences with a duel. Actually, that might thin the herd of the less intelligent so I'm now for it.

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16apollo(1227 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Here is an example!

LAVACA COUNTY, Texas -- A 14-year-old boy was accidentally shot and killed in a hunting accident by his grandfather, investigators said.

According to the Lavaca County Sheriff's Office, Taylor Michalec's grandfather said he was walking behind the teen when the trigger on his AK-47 assault rifle snagged a branch and discharged, striking the teen in the back.

The shooting happened Wednesday afternoon near County Road 290, about five miles west of Moulton, Texas, about 100 miles east of San Antonio.

Yup, we need more guns! Maybe the grandson would have been able to kill grandpa first if he only had an Ak-47 of his own.

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17Eric(196 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

OhioCHL, I'm shocked at what you are saying. I don't care even if the coach was being a jerk and screaming at the guy (and the article doesn't confirm nor deny this.) That doesn't mean the guy had a right to pull out a gun and threaten to shoot him! There was no physical confrontation, just a verbal one. Physical violence can not be justified over a verbal altercation. It scares me that you think the grandfather was right and should go free. I'm not making a commentary on the validity of concealed carry; there are always people who make bad decisions, and those need to be dealt with on an individual basis. I'm simply supporting a commonly accepted fact about the sanctity of human life. The grandpa should get his 30 days AND lose his concealed carry permit.

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18sfrogg(9 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

First of all apollo, the Texas story has nothing to do with concealed carry. Who hunts with an AK-47?? Accidents happen. Like I said before you want to punish all concealed carriers for one human beings mistake. We can not all be perfect. This old west thing you have is about lame. The old west is alot safer place then the world today!!

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19henryviii1509(274 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

IMAGINE THIS.....every single seat has a single shot pistol on an airplane,(they are left mounted but available to the occupants). What nutcase/terrorist is going to announce a hi-jacking or deliver a bomb threat if he knows that the other passengers on the plane are also armed. ANSWER...NONE!

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20apollo(1227 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Henry VIII, do you really believe that crapola? What is more likely to happen is passengers will get into a disagreement and shoot each other causing the plane to go down and all 200 will be dead. More guns DO NOT equal less violence. Never has and never will. The stats comparing America to Europe prove it beyond a shadow of doubt.

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21henryviii1509(274 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Apollo, your statement about the old west contradicts your later statement regarding my post. Which is it? To level the playing field, where only criminals have guns where they are banned, all must be able and willing to stand-up and protect themselves as well as others and that means that all men are only equal if they are armed equally.

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22buddy(2 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

I THINK THIS WHOLE STORY AND COMMENTS ARE RIDICULOUS. HAS ANYONE EVER MENTIONED HOW HIS GRANDSON FELT. IF THIS WAS MY FATHER AND HE DID THIS I DON'T KNOW IF I COULD EVER TALK TO HIM AGAIN. DID HE THINK ABOUT HOW SCARED HIS GRANDSON WAS BY THIS. I DON'T CARE HOW I FEERED FOR MY LIFE, MY KIDS WOULD COME FIRST. THIS GUY SHOULD ROT FOR THE STRESS HE PUT THOSE KIDS THROUGH. I HOPE HE DOESN'T GET A SLAP ON THE WRIST.

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23buddy(2 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

I was reading a comment that stated "we need both sides of the story." HELLO, who carries a gun to a little league baseball game. There's no 2 sides needed. My kids play next to here, should their be metal detectors in place?????????

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24apollo(1227 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Ya just gotta love the gun nuts. They are consistenly wrong. People are getting accidentally shot day after day and very few criminals ever get detered by an armed citizen. Yet, they want more guns to protect us from the minimal risk of getting robbed. Henry VIII, just claiming a contradiction and actually proving a contradiction are 2 seperate things.

The facts are not debateable. Europe has much less violent crime because they don't permit guns and America is a truly violent society because it does.

As for only the criminals having guns, where do you think they get these guns? Most criminals get guns that originally were legal guns and were stolen. Nearly every gun starts off as a legal gun.

And protecting yourself is a myth too. The chances that you'll be able to fend off a gun toting criminal using a concealed carry weapon are almost nil. Do you really think you can draw the weapon before from concealment BEFORE the robber blows you away?

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25sfrogg(9 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

You act like concealment means locked away. NOPE!! The issue of this story is not concealed carry, or should the public have guns. The issue is this guy made a mistake and needs to have some type of punishment. But of course he had a license to carry so hes not aloud to make a mistake. This crap about people being shot everyday accidentally is just that CRAP. People are shot everyday,theres not that many that are accidental. Sit in your car and someone shows up that does not like you and you get shot. People are shot everyday because there are people out there that do not give a flying ---- about life and do what ever they want. There are those of us that want to abide by the law as best we can and carry a weapon. We are still human. This person made a mistake and he should have to pay for it.

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26henryviii1509(274 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Apollo, the contradiction is in print straight from your keyboard, douche bag.

The facts you state about the European violent crime rates are correct as are those pertaining to gun ownership. Good Job.

The part of the story that you neglect to comment on is the amount of oppression that the "free peoples" of these countries have placed on them.

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27apollo(1227 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

European Oppression??? Now that's funny coming from someone who has probably never left the valley. You really need to get out. Europe has MORE freedoms that we have. Especially since the Republicans and Bush and his NEOCON buddies have run roughshod over the constitution. I've been to Europe and have cowrokers who are from Europe and they are amazed at how easily Americans have given up their privacy and freedoms all over the PERCEPTION of safety.

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28Eric(196 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Apollo, I agree with you there. I've been to England and Australia, and both of those countries have more freedom then we do. When I was in Sydney I had freedom to walk down the street and feel safe. I had freedom to ride the bus late at night and not worry about being mugged. Of course, those societies also have other "freedoms" that many Americans object to, such as legalized/regulated prostitution, gambling (although that is changing everywhere except Ohio), looser alcohol regulations, and topless beaches. But that is a discussion for a different thread.

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29apollo(1227 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Here is another benefit of concealed carry!!!

Published:Thursday, June 19, 2008

BOARDMAN — A Poland teenager told police he was a victim of road rage when another driver pulled a gun on him.

The 17-year-old said he was driving on U.S. Route 224 near East Golf Drive about 12:30 p.m. Wednesday when he passed a pickup truck that was sitting at the entrance of a doctor’s office.

After the vehicle behind the teen’s car let the truck leave the parking lot onto Route 224, the truck driver, a man in his late 40s, pulled up next to the victim and yelled for him to roll down the window. The teen did so, and said the truck driver brandished a handgun and pointed it at him, asking, “What now?” according to police reports.

The victim put his hands up and his passenger ducked down, but neither saw the truck’s license plate number as it did a U-turn and traveled east on Route 224.

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30howard37(5 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

I had an incident in traffic where a large, young man got out his car and walked up to me screaming that I "cut him Off", he said he was going to pull me from my car, when he grabbed the door handle, I put my 38 snub nose in his face and said I would shoot, he backed off, got in his car and left, I am in my late 60's, have a CCW permit and I was protecting myself and my wife. I think this young punk might think twice before doing that again. No all you bleeding hearts can cry about this.

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31apollo(1227 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Great, just what we want, people using the threat of death by gun for simple road rage incidents. Perhaps we can also use them for arguments at McDonalds over seating, parking spots at the mall, etc. I can see it now. When they open the doors at Walmarts for black Friday and 2 ladies pick up the Wii game console at the same time, the one with the gun will win out. Our only hope is that enough of you gun nuts kill each other off and leave the rest of us unharmed.

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32howard37(5 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

To Apollo, I believed I was going to be harmed, maybe beaten to death and also feared for my wife. This is why I pulled my gun. Why do you think I carry a gun? To shoot rabbits? I was protecting my life when this man tried to open my car door. Did I mention I am a retired Police Officer?

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33apollo(1227 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

No surprise that you're a retired LEO. Sorry, but you only pull a weapon if intending to use and you ONLY use in cases to save a life.

Just believing you are going to be harmed is NOT justification for pulling and/or using a firearm. What if he had reached for a cell phone to call the law. I suspect you'd have thought he was reaching for a gun and blew him away. Just what we need, more gun toting crazies taking the law into their own hands.

By the way, why did he come after you? You must have done something to instigate it?

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34Anita(20 comments)posted 6 years, 2 months ago

Some thoughts:
First of all, the idea that a person who owns a gun is more likely to shoot a family member or friend is a liberal-driven lie based on a very flawed study done by Case Western Reserve Univ. researchers in 1970, 38 years ago. The study was done in East Cleveland, Ohio, an almost 100% black suburb of Cleveland with a very high violent crime rate. How did they determine who knew who? Well the (anti-gun) researchers simply drew a circle one half mile in radius around the victims residence and if the shooter lived within this 1 mile diameter circle, the Case people arbitrarily decided that they were either related or knew
each other. This is garbage science at its best. Why was the survey never repeated? Because the anti-gun people got the slanted results they wanted the first time . The anti-gun crowd has been repeating the same time worn lie ever since.
Second: It is encouraging that so many people in Youngstown hate guns. Everything else in Loserville is backwards so this must mean guns are gaining in popularity elsewhere.
Lastly: I worked in a retail firearms establishment for a few years. It has been my personal experience that most people who are opposed to private gun ownership are the ones who cannot legally own them due to felonys, or drug or domestic violence convictions. I wonder how many
of the above writers fall into that category.

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