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Hiring dispute delays store



Published: Wed, August 20, 2008 @ 12:09 a.m.

By John W. Goodwin Jr.

The mayor says either Liberty or Wal-Mart is to blame for the delay.

LIBERTY — Plans to build the much-anticipated Wal-Mart Supercenter on Belmont Avenue are now on hold indefinitely, and the city of Youngstown is at the heart of that decision, says a township official.

Township Trustee Jodi Stoyak said Wal-Mart officials have put plans to build the store on hold. She said water supply issues with the city of Youngstown are at the core of the decision to put the brakes on the project.

“This is very disturbing to me and will be disturbing to the rest of this community,” she said.

According to Stoyak, Wal-Mart officials left a message on the voicemail of Township Administrator Pat Ungaro on Tuesday saying that the company was ready to go out for bids in the building process, but Youngstown informed the company that it would be required to hire 25 percent of its workforce from Youngstown in order to receive city water.

But Mayor Jay Williams said, “The city of Youngstown’s water application has been in effect for over 20 years.”

Williams says the application was put in place by Ungaro, a former Youngstown mayor. Williams said he last spoke with Ungaro last week and has attempted to reach him about the issue.

“... If this [building] program is being put on hold, it is because of the incompetency of either Liberty or the people at Wal-Mart.”

Williams said he first heard of the issue through the media.

Stoyak said Wal-Mart does not want to agree to hire 25 percent of its employees from the city because doing so would tie the company’s hands in future hiring practices.

She said the request from the city deletes the possibility of jobs for anyone in the area, including the city.

“Wal-Mart could have actually hired more than 25 percent from the city, but by doing this and stopping this project, no one in Mahoning or Trumbull County will see any additional jobs,” Stoyak said. “We are starving for jobs in this area, and this project is being held up by the mayor. Unfortunately, I don’t think Mayor Williams realizes that Wal-Mart is not going to play games with him.”

“They [Wal-Mart] need to fill out the application like every application has been filled out for 20 years,” Williams said. It’s a simple, straightforward resolution.”

Williams said that Wal-Mart filled out the application but deleted or decided not to fill out certain sections, claiming it “X-ed them out.”

“Wal-Mart does not have the ability to arbitrarily decide which parts of the application they want to fill out,” Williams said. “All they have to do is fill out the application like the thousands of other applications [have been filled out] for the past 20 years.”

Wal-Mart must fill out the remainder of the application in order for it to be approved, the mayor added.

Stoyak said there is more at stake than just the Wal-Mart store. She said the township was expecting considerable growth around the big retailer, but those projects may also be in jeopardy if the Wal-Mart store is not built.

Stoyak said the situation has left township trustees’ hands tied in getting the retailer to build in the township.

“All trustees can do is work with the press to apply more pressure publicly and let the public know exactly what is going on with this situation,” Stoyak said.

This recent situation is not the first time a disagreement over water has threatened the Belmont Avenue Wal-Mart project.

Talk of a joint economic development agreement with the city for water several weeks ago briefly caused concern for township officials anticipating the project’s completion.

Township and city officials met at that time and discussed the plans. The outcome was that no JEDD would be sought on the project.


Comments

1tylersclark(182 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Read the article, OMG! How is it Mayor Williams's fault that this stipulation has been on the books for twenty years? Just blame Mayor Williams for everything, why don't you?

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2George412(161 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Tyler, I was just getting ready to post the same thing. Old Man, it's clear from everything you post here that you can't stand Mayor Williams. We get it. Maybe it's time to move on. Do something else with your life.

If Walmart wants the liberty location, Walmart has to complete the application. No exception. We should not allow ourselves to be bullied by this retail juggernaut.

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3debraweaver(30 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Isn't it interesting that Ungaro was the former mayor of Youngstown and was responsible for the regulations regarding water, and now that he is the Township Administrator for Liberty, it has come back to haunt him. This is not Mayor Williams' fault. I'm very tired of having Youngstown blamed for everything that ever goes wrong and the Mahoning Valley getting credit for everything that goes right, even when it actually happens in Youngstown. Enough Youngstown bashing! It is petty, and does not make anyone in the area look good that is for sure.

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4JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Grump is (rightfully) all over the mayor because of his John Wayne attitude about this. Clearly Williams is more interested in getting some ink for himself than coming to an equitable solution for all parties. The problem is that it will take Walmart about 45 minutes to stake its claim somewhere outside of the Valley and set up shop there rather than in Liberty; this is not some mom & pop donut shop or something that the mayor can nickel and dime to get what he wants.

Just arbitrarily saying that the new store would employ 350 people total, where are you going to find 88 people in Youngstown that want to work? I'm being 100% serious here. People aren't going to drive from the East side to work in Liberty when gas is $3.50-$4.00 per gallon.

It is absolutely outrageous that this guy has people in his constituency snowballed to the extent that they would defend his putting this deal in jeopardy because of unabashed greed. He's right on with the patrolman issue but dead wrong with this.

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5JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Bullied by this retail juggernaut? THEY ARE MAKING AN GOOD FAITH EFFORT TO DO BUSINESS HERE and getting stonewalled by antiquated paperwork processes! THEY WANT TO GIVE AREA PEOPLE JOBS! Are you people all insane? You should be thankful that SOMEONE wants to do business in the nearly vacant Liberty Plaza but instead they are the bad guys? What other companies are clamoring to do business in the Mahoning Valley? The answer is NONE. ZERO.

The answer is come to an agreement based on volume: Walmart will offer more jobs than nearly any other company doing business in Liberty Township, as a result Y-town could amend the agreement to reflect say 10% rather than 25%. A lower percentage of a higher number is better than losing the deal altogether.

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6YoungstownKidd(40 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

From Shout Youngstown:

“Wal-Mart could have actually hired more than 25 percent from the city, but by doing this and stopping this project, no one in Mahoning or Trumbull County will see any additional jobs,” Stoyak said. “We are starving for jobs in this area, and this project is being held up by the mayor. Unfortunately, I don’t think Mayor Williams realizes that Wal-Mart is not going to play games with him.”

Aside from the ongoing verbal sparring and rhetoric...

Linking the construction of a Wal-Mart to regional (I guess Mahoning + Trumbull counties in this case) job growth is probably incorrect unless:

a) people from outside of Mahoning and Trumbull counties shop for Wal-Mart goods inside Mahoning and Trumbull counties.

b) people from inside of Mahoning or Trumbull counties who normally shop outside of their home counties now shop locally.

While either of these two options most probably fall under the "not bloody likely" category, this reminds me of some wise words on the subject of regional economic development from Ed Morrison:

Economic development involves three types of money.

"Good money" comes from businesses that trade outside your region. They generate wealth. (Michael Porter's work at Harvard suggests that wages for these traded businesses are about one-third higher than "sheltered" businesses.)

"Neutral money" comes from businesses that circulate revenues within an economy. You buy haircuts from me, and I buy lawn care from you.

"Bad money" comes from business transactions that export wealth from an economy. Many people think that Wal-Mart falls into this category. Except in relatively rare cases, casinos fall into this category as well.

Unless someone can help me understand this issue better, how does building a Wal-Mart push regional job growth as was claimed in the article?

How does a project like this help the entire region, as opposed to a single political entity, regardless of who exactly the immediate winners and losers within the region are?

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7George412(161 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Jeff, Your passion for the area is great, and I'm not being smart here. Clearly you're an intelligent guy. Yes, Walmart wants to do business in the area, and we need business.

However, there is the other side. A Walmart supercenter would also jeopardize already existing jobs and businesses. For example, think about the locally owned Giant Eagle in Liberty, which is run by the same family that opened three Rotelli restaurants in the area over the past couple of years. Walmart is a real threat to these business owners who have never wavered in their support of the area.

Walmart offers low-paying, no-hope-of-advancement jobs, but at what cost? I'm not anti-Walmart per se, but I do think that the store should be made to play by the rules.

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8YoungstownKidd(40 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Sorry, "Option A" was not included above. Here you go:

“Wal-Mart could have actually hired more than 25 percent from the city, but by doing this and stopping this project, no one in Mahoning or Trumbull County will see any additional jobs,” Stoyak said. “We are starving for jobs in this area, and this project is being held up by the mayor. Unfortunately, I don’t think Mayor Williams realizes that Wal-Mart is not going to play games with him.”

Aside from the ongoing verbal sparring and rhetoric...

Linking the construction of a Wal-Mart to regional (I guess Mahoning + Trumbull counties in this case) job growth is probably incorrect unless:

a) people from outside of Mahoning and Trumbull counties shop for Wal-Mart goods inside Mahoning and Trumbull counties.

b) people from inside of Mahoning or Trumbull counties who normally shop outside of their home counties now shop locally.

While either of these two options most probably fall under the "not bloody likely" category, this reminds me of some wise words on the subject of regional economic development from Ed Morrison:

Economic development involves three types of money.

"Good money" comes from businesses that trade outside your region. They generate wealth. (Michael Porter's work at Harvard suggests that wages for these traded businesses are about one-third higher than "sheltered" businesses.)

"Neutral money" comes from businesses that circulate revenues within an economy. You buy haircuts from me, and I buy lawn care from you.

"Bad money" comes from business transactions that export wealth from an economy. Many people think that Wal-Mart falls into this category. Except in relatively rare cases, casinos fall into this category as well.

Unless someone can help me understand this issue better, how does building a Wal-Mart push regional job growth as was claimed in the article?

How does a project like this help the entire region, as opposed to a single political entity, regardless of who exactly the immediate winners and losers within the region are?

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9airforce87(1 comment)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

As a former resident of Youngstown, it is sad that this is happening. Through the years, the city has lost jobs and major retail...to the suburbs (Liberty & Boardman). I do not blame the city officials for not connecting the water. Furthermore....Wal-Mart should build a store on Market St. Preferrably the old Kroger store location on the southside.

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10JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Y-Kidd: I am with you but you've forgotten about income taxes and revenue generated by business that would blossom around the new business. In an economically depressed area there should be no good or bad money, there should only be money -- its the government's job in a free-market society to keep things from prohibiting money being made, not the opposite.

George: I am with you too but competition is king, especially in retail. Consumers get better prices and employees have more leverage to command higher wages. Also I don't know specifics about their hierarchy but I'm sure management opportunities exist for employees to shoot for when climbing the ranks -- store managers at thriving locations approach (and in some cases exceed) six figures anually.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results -- I'm sure other companies have chosen not to do business in the area because of tactics like the 25% thing, its time to embrace growth rather than stifle it over greed, that's all I'm saying.

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11AKAFR1(322 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

I suggest that the suburbs put up toll barriers on Mahoning Avenue, Market Street, Belmont Avenue and 680. When city residents want to enter the suburbs they will be charged a toll to use our services and businesses. After all they use our roads, police and fire to do their shopping at Walmart, Aldi, Giant Eagle, Target and many other stores that refuse to locate in the city.

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12Bull_Chip(170 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Jay has successfully killed another Valley business that would have benefited the REGION.

Congratulations Mayor, you have limited employment opportunities for residents of the area INCLUDING YOUNGSTOWN RESIDENTS.

Mayor Williams has successfully limited the potential for income taxes for YOUNGSTOWN and surrounding areas.

Mayor Williams has successfully made sure that property values will continue to fall due to the lack of retail development and the continued lack of earned income by YOUNGSTOWN residents.

Mayor Jay Williams has successfully killed off a potential bonanza in area construction jobs, not only from Wal-Mart but additional area businesses feeding on the Wal-Mart customers.

Mayor Jay Williams has successfully killed off the growth for service businesses in the area to support the store employees and new customers being drawn into the area.

Mayor Jay Williams has successfully killed off the prospect of a Wal-Mart being built within YOUNGSTOWN CITY LIMITS – EVER!

Mayor Jay Williams has successfully killed off YOUNGSTOWN, just like FORBES said.

Mayor Jay Williams has successfully killed off the potential for ANY regional initiatives with his latest extortion attempt.

Mayor Jay Williams has successfully killed off the WRTA county levy by sticking it to the region AGAIN.

Mayor Jay Williams has successfully killed off the potential for rebuilding a once thriving retail center WITHOUT THE USE OF TAX MONEY!

Mayor Jay Williams has successfully shown his true self again. Not regional cooperation, only a vicious blow in an attempt to pay for the excesses that are YOUNGSTOWN.

DEPENDS YOUNGSTOWN – NOTE: this is not a misspelling!

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13zieg2003(82 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

I don't think it benefits Youngstown at all being that it is being built in Liberty plaza, if that was the case then he wouldn't have insisted on the JEDD, the mayor simply wants some kind of income from walmart besides a water bill. I agree it would be nice if the walmart was actually built in Youngstown. Liberty already has high property values and taxes and Youngstown is in dire need of that. Can you imagine a walmart and lowes and what not built in the heart of youngstown, it would be a great idea I think, knock down all those decaying homes and steel mills and start building valuable shopping centers here on the northside/eastside on albert st and andrews avenue area.

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14JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

This is really quite simple: people in Youngstown don't have expendable cash for a retail chain to justify doing business in the city and people in the burbs won't drive to Youngstown to shop -- that (among many other things) is why Liberty makes sense. If that sounds mean I'm sorry but that is how these things are evaluated by large chains.

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15zieg2003(82 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

That is not true, there are 80,000 people In youngstown who has to do their shopping elsewhere, so whether that's pulling out a foodstamp card or robbing peter to pay paul, there is tons of money to be made here in youngstown, we have to shop somewhere, we eat, sleep, work and live too, and right now all of our money is being spent in liberty, boardman and niles, youngstown is what keeps boardman and canfield in business, they set up police traps and enjoy writing us tickets to pay there bills, lol, if we had our own resources all these outskirt suburbs would fail without our money.

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16JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Zieg: I'm willing to overlook your assault on the English language because I seriously love the passion, for real. You can't teach passion. Unfortunately for some common sense can't be taught either; I thank you for helping illustrate that point. Given your explanation I think the next step is clear: people in the city should stop shopping, eating, sleeping and working in the suburbs. Its high time that someone draws that line in the sand -- no doubt a surefire way to make those jerks at Forbes eat crow.

Large retail companies are what keeps Boardman, et al in business, friend. If you ever left town you'd see that in every major metro area (of which Youngstown isn't one) retail tends to be situated in suburbs; this is not some elaborate conspiracy for the rest of the world to keep its foot on the neck of the city of Youngstown.

Also, if you obey the speed limit it will help you avoid being ticketed.

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17INYOURFACE(33 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

It seems like we always get the same tired remarks from Bull Chip and Old Grumpy Man. You guys are bunch of dick heads. I support you Mayor Williams. Go to hell Walmarts, they have to follow the rules just like the rest of us. As for you 2 knotheads its pretty obvious you are amoung the red and blue-necks in this area that are against any positive move a black man does.

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18JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Mayor Williams just helped keep black men and anyone else in the area from getting jobs at "Walmarts." Is that a positive thing?

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19Bull_Chip(170 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Most employers don’t want to burden their employees with a 2 ¾% income tax or the various other encumbrances that a store within Youngstown entails.

A similar event occurred in Chicago. Wal-Mart wanted to open a store in the city, the city attempted to mandate almost limitless costs and restrictions on the store and its employees and Wal-Mart built a store just out of the cities reach.

The city would have had access to income tax on city residents who worked at Wal-Mart, but that was not enough for Jay. No, anybody who wanted to start on the ground floor and work their way up as a mechanic, cashier, janitor, stock man/women, grocery employee or any other position are out of luck, thanks to Mayor Jay Williams of Youngstown Ohio. The Wal-Mart will eventually be built, but no there in Liberty. No Liberty residents, continue to watch your property values plummet just like those in Youngstown. You will soon have a totally abandoned shopping area there thanks to Mayor Williams.

Less retail property value, less property tax paid by retail, more taxes to be paid by residents. You may want to communicate your appreciation to Mayor Williams. Any chain retailer wanting to go into the area will now avoid it like the plague.

If Wal-Mart abandons an area because of the local political climate, NO large foot print retailer will look at the area again for major investment. Food Stamps, Welfare checks and pensions are not enough to attract a big box to an inner city area plagued with rampant crime and lawlessness.

No, Liberty has been Jayed and everybody looses. Even if Liberty sued Youngstown and won, Wal-Mart wouldn’t be interested. No, leaders like Jay have indeed killed the city and are now reaching out to the surrounding areas in an attempt to suck the life blood out of them to keep a bloated, corrupt city fiefdom from collapsing. It has oft been said before, but Jay and the city are like a drowning man, they will pull anybody within arms reach down with them even if you are offering them a hand.

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20Bull_Chip(170 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

FACE posted “Bull Chip and Old Grumpy Man. ---- As for you 2 knotheads its pretty obvious you are amoung the red and blue-necks in this area that are against any positive move a black man does.”

Well FACE, first of all, we are businessmen. We are your worst fear because we are the ones that employ your parents and pay taxes for the various programs that are available to you. Obviously you did not avail yourself of the free public educational system we pay for. I find the color of a person irrelevant, I only evaluate the content of their character.

If you had been old enough to vote for Governor in the last election, would you have voted for a Black man? I did.

A bad decision is a bad decision regardless of who makes it. Throwing away hundreds of jobs in an area with the lack of entry level unskilled labor jobs this area has is a bad decision, regardless of the color of the extortionist.

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21zieg2003(82 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

JeffLebowski you seem to think you know everything, lets talk about the ignorance in your remarks, you have the mind of a 10 year old descriminatory retard for the proposition of "drawing the line". This is not a game, Maybe you haven't heard, sorry to inform you but the times of slavery and segregation are over my friend, and for your information, retail stores do not reside in just suburbs, In cities like Cleveland and Pittsburgh the retail businesses reside in the city, not the suburbs, so stop blurting out that egocentrical nonsense.

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22zieg2003(82 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

"JUSTICE" Like I said Youngstown has 80,000 people, Boardman and Canfield and whatever else don't compare to that many people, so when those "townships" become cities, we can play the statistics game. With more people you get more crime, that is a fact. Boardman and Canfield may not have murders, but the theft and petty crimes are just as high.

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23Bull_Chip(170 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Zieg, according to Mayor Jay Williams, 70 percent of all income earned in the city and therefore 70% of all income taxes paid is earned by non-city residents. That leaves welfare and pensions as the primary income for the balance of the population.

Without non-city residents, the city of Youngstown would collapse. It may not be a game, but Mayor Jay still lost.

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24Mimi2BC(147 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

zieg2003, the reason theft and petty crime occurs in the burbs is because the city folk come to where there is something worth stealing! You keep telling us about your 80,000 people.... great.... now if only the bulk of the 80,000 would go get a job, we out in the burbs wouldn't have to see Y-town slickers spending OUR money in OUR stores! Trust me I wouldn't shed one single tear if all 80,000 residents found another place to shop, oh wait, you're going to have to do that anyway because we out in the burbs are gonna vote NO on WRTA. At least some of you could have walked to the Wal-Mart in Liberty, too bad...

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25Mimi2BC(147 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

AKAFR1.... I'd work for free at those toll booths!

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26zieg2003(82 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

If that is the case then that means people from boardman and canfield are working in the city of youngstown, which means youngstown needs the suburbs just as much as they need us

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27zieg2003(82 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Lol yall are killing me acting like people in youngstown don't work, we work just as much as anyone else, metropolitan low income housing is in boardman too buddy

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28JeffLebowski(953 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Zieg: Seriously...the passion is dynamite but in your excitement you've missed some key things in my comment. I said that retail TENDED to be in suburbs. Something TENDING to be something is far from an absolute statement. The drawing the line comment was meant to illustrate the fact that no one wins the pis*ing match between city-vs-suburb because as one rises/falls so does the other. (I was being facetious, I encourage you to Google the word.)

Other than addressing lack of opportunities FOR ALL PEOPLE as a result of this business opportunity probably going away because of strong-arm tactics by the mayor its not racial with me. (Apparently it is with you though so right on.) Finally, and perhaps most importantly, to even attempt to lump Y-town into the same categories as cities like Cleveland and Pittsburgh is ridiculous on every level. I grew up and went to school in Y-town but now live in a major Midwestern city and I can assure you there is no comparison.

Let go of your anger but by all means keep the passion...if it appears that I seem to know everything I'm sorry, I truly do respect your opinion though.

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29zieg2003(82 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Facetious is all I ever took you for, I'm not taking any of these people serious and if you think I'm irascible you have got me confused, I am simply conversing with ignorant people who think they know, but it seems ignorance will prevail.

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30metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Now Younsgtown is figthing with townships that aren't even i nthe sae county. It's trumbull county alst time I checked that Liberty is in.

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31Bull_Chip(170 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

zeig posted “it seems ignorance will prevail”. Well zeig, I have to agree with that, and I feel sorry for you. Urban legend and urban belief does not make it fact. According to the US Census Bureau, over 80% of the Youngstown population has no federally taxable earned income.

As to your post “With more people you get more crime”, sorry, dead wrong. The statistics only get worse in inner-city urban populations. Minority populations in the suburbs, exurbs and non-inner-city urban areas experience significantly less crime. Even rural poverty has only a slightly elevated crime rate above non-poverty rurals. All the stats are available online from the FBI standardized crime reporting and Census demographics. Further, property crimes increase with the proximity to in inner-city urban populations. Shop lifting is oft times a family event among these populations where as it is an infrequent crime among non-employees outside theses areas, restricted primarily to teenagers and menopausal women.

An example, granted it is anecdotal, - how many houses in Canfield have been torched to cover up the theft of aluminum and copper from them? How about Youngstown? Hint, in Youngstown they don’t even bother to put them out anymore.

Zeig, I am sure you will not accept these facts, you are too deluded by urban myth. But PLEASE, investigate them, the violence/drug death expectancy for inner-city urbans and the income penalty for not getting a legitimate education. It will help both you and my children. You will be able to succeed based entirely on your own merits and my children will not be paying taxes to support yours. I think you will find that a tremendously rewarding experience.

By the way, the inner city urbans I reference are black/white/latino/asian/?? Your heritage doesn’t matter when your only interested is busting a cap on someone because they dissed you, your colors or your bro or ho, or if you score or deal crack/meth/white/XX.

In todays world, drop out/have babies/use/gang/deal/prison/die!

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32metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Sadly yes why bother puuting out these gires in houses that are more like shack,totla lsott $5,000.

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33zieg2003(82 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

You can run your statistics all day long but that is all they ever will be, I do not fall within that 80% your referring to and that is the point, you assume that just because I live in Youngstown. The most populated areas are always the so called "urban cities" but Youngstown still has a majority of whites. My point is not everyone in Youngstown is on welfare and section 8. I work and pay taxes just like you. Urban myths are for the ones who live in the "burbs" I live here, I don't need to believe in myths

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34zieg2003(82 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Oh and those houses are not burned down to hide the obvious fact that they have been gutted, that's your urban myth, the truth is neighbors burn those houses down because they are eyesores, and why even bother putting lives in danger to put out the fire to a worthless gutted home that would cost thousands to finish knocking down anyway. Canfield and Boardman don't have the vast number of empty homes but due to the high foreclosers in such areas they will have them in due time.

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35metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

At the ways things are going thre wil be a lot of vaccant houses and the city won't or cna't get rid of them so burning them down becuase you are sick of the eyesore that breds crime and rats and all kinds of animals is the only way to drop them a hint.

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36INYOURFACE(33 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

This is back to Bull Chip again, It just goes to show you amke assumptions about people you are a red-neck like I said. I am old enough to have vote in the last race for governor and I can tell you for sure it was not Ken Blackwell. I am also old enough to have retired from a very good job and am not on welfare and my children are all well educated and hold 6 figure positions.

Its atititues like yours that keep racisim alive.

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37Bull_Chip(170 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

A white businessman votes for a black man for governor and that shows that the businessman is a racist?

Can someone explain that to me? That should be an interesting read.

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38dmets(575 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

All I have to say is if the Mayor of Youngstown is able to have an effect on our outter laying communities. Actually the whole Mahoning county. Then I think everyone within the county should be able to vote for mayor, not just youngstown city residentants. As for the Wal-Mart deal. It was ok for Wal-Mart to build in Austintown with the same stipulations, so why can't Liberty? Same company, same water contract. But Mayor Jay can also have the contract rewritten to make more business to want to come the area. Well that is if that don't force the JEDD on them. Mayor Jay wants to improve Youngstown, and he doesn't care who's feet he steps on to do it. Outter laying areas see Youngstown as a black hole, and that nothing good comes out of it.

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39Lifes2Short(3878 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Well once again a subject comes up about Racism! Never fells, and never will.....How can this topic turned into racism?? Unreal! Will never end.....and that's sad!
On to the topic, why should Youngstown dictate a company who they should hire? If I owned a business I would HIRE the BEST PEOPLE POSSIBLE! Not from where they live! So if a person applies from Youngstown, and HAS TO GET HIRED, and moves out of youngstown, does he/she get fired???? It's a 20 year old issue, this is the 2000's, TIMES HAVE CHANGED! If I was Walmarts I would tell Youngstown to shove it...and just move on to another location.....to CREATE JOBS.....We need jobs and have a golden opportunity with Walmarts in Liberty, and once there the anchor you know other big name stores will move in.......MORE JOBS, wow is'nt that a really nice concept!

Lifes 2 short, enjoy each moment.......well u can.....

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40INYOURFACE(33 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Voting for a black man, its the man you voted for I have a problem with. Ken Blackwell is resposible for Bush- Brain winning in Ohio. With the faulty computerized voting machines, miscounted votes and the fact the man running for the position should not have been running the program at the same time. But there again he is a republican and they are the only ones blessed by God and pretty much can do whatever they please.....................in other words Holy Than Thou.

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41Bull_Chip(170 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

FACE, I am sorry, but with all respect due you, I cannot comprehend or decipher what you posted. Further, was that posted in response to “A white businessman votes for a black man for governor and that shows that the businessman is a racist?”

Could you please put it another way so I can understand it?

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42AtownParent(562 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

dmets - you bring up a good point about the Walmart in A-town. I would be curious to see if they actually did fill out the application completely. Walmart rarely changes its policies, so I can't see them agreeing for one location and not the other. Plus, there was a different mayor in office when the A-town location was built. One that didn't try and blackmail townships by withholding water.

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43NachoCheese(163 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

NONE of this will ever be solved until the surrounding communities stick a fork in this once and for all. INCORPORATE! Those who can't (due to archaic laws written 40 some years ago to benefit cities) should band together on their own until they meet the qualifications.

Jay is clearly a MORON! "just because we've done this wrong before, we're going to continue to do this wrong - screw anybody who doesn't agree with me" ... yeah, that's regionalism alright.

Hey Jay - back in history, we always used to allow slavery, we used to not allow women to vote, and numerous other things I'm sure you don't agree with - you're saying that precedent would be reason enough to continue those obviously wrong practices? Apply the same logic to your stance on blackmail for water?

Youngstown needs to be put out of its' misery once and for all - for the sake of the entire Mahoning Valley - before it's too late (if it's not already).

SAVE THE MAHONING VALLEY! EUTHANIZE YOUNGSTOWN CITY!

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44metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Or at least don't try to bring us all down with you.

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45TB(1167 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

I forgot that those Wal-Mart jobs were such good jobs, not to mention the benefits that come with them.

It's nice to know all that money spent at Wal-Mart will be flowing out of the area.

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46INYOURFACE(33 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

And to you Grumpy Old Man, if you think I am a racist, where do you think I learned. You guys are the ones that can't handle Colonial Jessup's " U can't handle the truth". Remember moron, in order to be a practicing racist you must have control over people's lives. Racist is analognus to Sexual Harassment, it the one that has the control to hire, fire, decide where you live, the poor ass black folks of this country don't control anything, therefore they cannot be racist in the truest form. We just don;t like you white folks, especially when you are jerks and pricks.

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47Mimi2BC(147 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

INYOURFACE
Black people don't like "us white folk"? Wow such class is being shown here. That's a really nice sweeping statement. Did all black people hire you as their spokeperson? I sure hope not. I could go so far into the negative responding to your post. If ALL black people dislike us, then try actually standing on your own w/o the handouts from us white folk Do you like that comment? Go ahead and tell me that not ALL black people are on welfare... I know this, just as you know ALL black people don't hate white people. Why would you chose to come on here and perpetuate nonsense? Does racism still exist? Absolutely, but that door swings both ways. You are also a racist. You don't have to have power to hate.

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48metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Thia is why Youngstown gets a bad name. all this hate leads to violence.

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49tmcwg1999(1 comment)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

I would like to see Walmart aquire water service from ANYONE else but Youngstown and add to their hiring practices,
NO YOUNGSTOWN RESIDENTS.
The residents voted these "leaders" into office, they need to see these leaders are adding to their demise.

ps: Doesn't YTown also charge a 40% surcharge to the suburbs too for water? When is enough,enough?

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50metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

I say we ahve had enough and we made that point clear. Yonsgtown wants to fight us though anyways.

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51NoBS(1982 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

INYOURFACE wrote: "And to you Grumpy Old Man, if you think I am a racist, where do you think I learned. You guys are the ones that can't handle Colonial Jessup's " U can't handle the truth". Remember moron, in order to be a practicing racist you must have control over people's lives."

Wrong. To be a racist (is there any other kind than 'practicing'?) all you have to have is hate. And you have that by the bucketload, chump.

" We just don;t like you white folks, "

That's a racist statement if there ever was one.

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52metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

True. And sadlt it won't go away.

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53Bull_Chip(170 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

“in order to be a practicing racist you must have control over people's lives”

Fascinating, a wealthy person can be racist, but a poor one can’t?

What level of manager do you have to be in order to be a racist?

How about a street thug? They have “control over people’s lives” with the use of a gun, theft, rape and other crimes. Can they be racist?

Can welfare recipients be racist? They have control over a taxpayer’s wallet and therefore the control over the taxpayer. If you don’t think so, what happens if a taxpayer decides not to pay the portion of their taxes that go for welfare.

If a person is a teacher and can impact your life by affecting your grades, can that person be racist?

How poor do you have to be to not be racist? If an individual tells me they are “retired from a very good job and am not on welfare and my children are all well educated and hold 6 figure positions”, can they be a racist? What if they then say “We just don;t like you XXXXX folks”, if that isn’t a racist statement, what is it?

Is R-A-C-I-S-T a ‘6 letter positions’?

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54metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Wow I am not going into this one.

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55metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

It is all the same bad and just plain wrong.

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56George412(161 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Hey Oldmangrump, here's the link to the Wikipedia entry on racism that you failed to provide:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

Since your usual rhetoric fails to exceed the sophomoric "Mayor Jay" moniker, when I read the phrase "taxonomic differences," I figured you were plagiarizing.

Back to the WalMart issue, Mayor WILLIAMS spoke candidly about it last night at the First Unitarian Universalist Church. If you really wanted to learn something, as opposed to just ranting and speculating, why were't you there?

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57cooks50(20 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Oldmangrump,

Why dont you do the research yourself the vindy did cover it, instead of complaining about everything be apart of the solution. You are a piece of work

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58George412(161 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Oldmangrump, Okay let me get this straight, you don't go into the city for fear of your life (insert raucous laughter here), you completely missed that the vindy DID cover the event, and you cited wikipedia for a definition of racism. Clearly, seeking accurate information isn't your strong suit.

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59Mimi2BC(147 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

In defense of OLD MAN:

Instead of attcking him why don't you have anything to say to INYOURFACE about his blantantly racist remarks about "white" people? Oh, I forgot that's acceptable in Y-town. The only thing "us white folk" are good for is going to work, paying our taxes, educating our children, etc...

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60metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

It sseems to be ok and could that be why our crime rate is so high?

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61dmets(575 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

George412, I don't blame Oldman Grump for not going into the city. I mean who really wants to go to a city where there are gun battles especially in the middle of the day. Back when I was in college we would walk to the different bars, Amy's and even Pogos, on the northside. Now when I happen to have to drive over there I think to myself i must have been nuts, or it has just gotten that much worse.

Now about the hiring, it should not be based on where you live. It should be based on your work ability, availablity, and the qualities of a good worker. It make me think that Youngstown doesn't have faith in the people to be able to get a job on their own. I would think that more the 25% of the workers would end up getting jobs without the stipulation!

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62boardmanneedschange(364 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Wal Mart should look at the criminal cases regarding theft from their store in Boardman, and examine the addresses of the defendants. Thats why they dont want anything to do with Youngstown. Why pay people to steal from you? Youngstown and Jay Williams have not yet hit rock bottom. If you think its bad now, just keep Jay and his "you owe me" attitude in office and see what happens. I wish to GOD Youngstown would get better, but the sad fact is it isn't. It's getting to a point where anything that anyone does that means anything to the city gets infiltrated by the Jay Williams P R train and has Jay and his peanut head picture stamped all over it so it looks like he is doing something right. I want to state again that I hope Youngstown can get up and start to be a good place again. But don't count on it under this administration and its money grabbing tactics.

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63metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

He feels he is the Mahoning valley and everyone else is lower then him. Nice try but we don't buy it.

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64George412(161 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

dmets: To me, the city seems safer than if was when I was in college. I remember being chased down Elm St. (1990) by crackheads. Now, I don't see any of that activity when I'm on the Northside in the evening several times a month.

I'm not going to deny that the 3 pm gunplay in the Uptown last week was disturbing. It was. I'm often on Market St. at that time of day.

However, for the most part, I feel safer now in Youngstown than I have for 20 years. I also go into the city now more than ever, so perhaps first hand experience gives me a different perspective than heresay and fear mongering.

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65dmets(575 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

I'm not afraid of going into Youngstown. I used to go there for college and also for work. I do tend to check over my shoulder to see who is behind me, also to the side and in front. I will say that things do seem more cleaned up of the crack heads walking around. I was raised on the westside and went to school on the northside, UHS. But who knows how old oldman grump is, and he might have been around in YOungstown when it was good, way back in the day. I mean crap can happen anywhere. It just seems to happen more within the city limits. We need more people taking pride within the limit and raising above the negative and turn it into a positive! Then others outside the limit may follow suit.

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66George412(161 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

dmets said, "We need more people taking pride within the limit and raising above the negative and turn it into a positive!"

I couldn't agree more. These movements always have more power when they start with the people. The Wean Foundation's Mahoning Valley Organizational Collaborative is doing good work at the grass roots level.

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67BobbyLee(5 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

it's Friday. Did Mayor Jay meet with WALMART or not? I haven't seen anything .

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68One_Who_Stayed(237 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

George412 and dmets, I have also seen the changes that you are talking about. I moved to the North Side about 18 years ago and the crime aspects, IMHO were much worse then than they are now-a-days. Unfortunately when you have a rolling gun-battle in the middle of the day, it makes things seem a thousand times worse than they really are. It grabs headlines.

Over the last 10 - 12 years the crime here has gone way down, with the exception of the last couple (which you will get when the economy takes a big hit like it has recently). You dont see a huge headline stating this. Things have been gradually getting steadily better - I live there - I have seen it first hand. Then BANG - big gunbattle in the middle of the day. And everything is horrible again. Not so.

Fact is these are isolated incidents. Lets not forget the steady improvement over many years. Dmets, the fact that you remember Amy's (or the Penguin pub before it - I live right off Wick Park) tells me you should be able to tell that it has got much better. Even while reading all these doom and gloom postings, I remain optimistic through first-hand experience. I see it every day and, while we still have a loooooong way to go - we are going there none the less.

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69George412(161 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

Oldman: "black area of concern?" Aren't you always saying that you're not a racist? It would be nice if your language matched what you claim to be true about yourself. However, I can understand that the Ytown you knew is far different than the one you see on the news.

dmets: "isolated incidents" absolutely. It hasn't escaped my notice that the people who are most afraid of Ytown never actually go there. Just the phrase "rolling gun battle" is pretty frightening, so it's not surprisingly that people are afraid.

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70George412(161 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

"not surprising" Sorry for the typo. I need to proofread better.

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71dmets(575 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

I really think that Youngstown just needs to take out the negative and bring a positive attitude to the city. Neighborhoods need to speak up against those in it that cause problems. You have to take back the streets and make those causing the problem see that your not affraid of them anymore. With a positive attitude many good things can happen. My husband has great faith in downtown youngstown. You all need to band together! I mean there is such thing as rock bottom, and going up is the only choice, so get up and make it happen! It only take one strong person to start a movement in the rigjht direction!

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72metz87(884 comments)posted 6 years, 3 months ago

And someone who is willing to face a uphill battle aginst those who don't want it to get better.

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