As the first tape begins, the participants are already engaged in conversation.
Charles Carabbia: (unintelligible) said you borrowed $15,000. Is that what you said, Sam?
Sam Traficanti: Yes sir.
Orland Carabbia: What did you do with it?
S. Traficanti: Give it to Jimmy.
James Traficant: We deposited it.
C. Carabbia: Jimmy, can I ask you a personal question?
J. Traficant: Go ahead.
C. Carabbia: I think it was Andy, you brought Jimmy down to us guys about in February or January, and said he’s going to run for sheriff, is that right? September? That was last year when you talked to Orlie.
Andy Chapella: Yeah, in September.
C. Carabbia: Now when Orlie came to me, Orlie made the remark about this guy run for sheriff and how much money you talkn’ about I was telling Orlie an’ us three guys, me, him and Ronnie, we sat down, we sat down, we talked about $25,000 or $30,000, now it’s what now. Jimmy, how much money did you spend on this election?
J. Traficant: I spend a lot of money, Charlie.
C. Carabbia: But… the money you got from Brier Hill. He said he borrowed 30.
J. Traficant: He didn’t spend none of that money from Brier Hill.
S. Traficanti: Now wait a minute, 15, look, shall we explain it to him (unintelligible) listen Charlie. The $15,000 that I just gave is just for a cover-up under expense account.
J. Traficant: On the front?
S. Traficanti: That’s all.
J. Traficant: That’ll show where these…
S. Traficanti: It has nothing to do with you or Orlie.
J. Traficant: (unintelligible).
S. Traficanti: That money’s gotta give he’s gonna give it back.
J. Traficant: Gonna give it back, that’s my responsible (unintelligible).
S. Traficanti: No, that has nothing to do with nothing else. He’s going to (unintelligible) to cover-up it up. A loan (unintelligible) except for your partners effort, I (unintelligible). Let’s forget that.
J. Traficant: Where did I get the money? Here’s where I got my money. Otherwise we’re running short on my money
O. Carabbia: OK, what did you get from…
J. Traficant: Every time I got from them I brought to you.
O. Carabbia: Yeah but you got the money from Brier Hill.
J. Traficant: Yeah.
O. Carabbia: I mean I just want to know what steps. Sam got some from Chuck or what…
J. Traficant: The first time in the primary I got the money, I gave it to you. That’s when you and the second time in the pri… the second time in the general Sam got two hits of $7,500 a piece and he brought it to you.
C. Carabbia: I thought it was $5,000 apiece.
S. Traficanti: No.
O. Carabbia: No. It was 7,500 apiece.
C. Carabbia: 7,500 apiece.
J. Traficant: Twice they gave it, the first time…
S. Traficanti: Those two bundles were supposed to have been two 10,000 bundles.
C. Carabbia: Well, how come you only gave me 75.
C. Carabbia: He kept 2,500 in each bundle in order to pay the 5,000 lumber bill. He has receipts (unintelligible). He did keep that out of there.
O. Carabbia: That’s true he explained it before.
S. Traficanti: Yeah, right.
C. Carabbia: But the first time that you got money was when you and I went out to the Calla Mar, sat with Jimmy.
J. Traficant: But I brought i8t to you.
C. Carabbia: And that was nothing. And all I got to do is (unintelligible).
J. Traficant: Right. And the general we took 15 and it turned out to be 20 because 5,000 for the lumber. OK? So there’s 20. All right. And we brought it down to you.
S. Traficanti: Just the way it was delivered to us.
J. Traficant: And then the last time was the 25,000 at his place and we brought it down here.
O. Carabbia: Who give you that?
J. Traficant: Brier Hill.
O. Carabbia: Who was with him when he gave you that.
J. Traficant: Sam, and me.
O. Carabbia: And just him.
J. Traficant: Uh huh.
O. Carabbia: All right, what about the…
C. Carabbia: See what we’re trying to figure out Jimmy now, we got a little problem here. When we now when me an’ Orlie sit down.
O. Carabbia: Wait a minute Sam, it’s to work, you know what I’m saying.
C. Carabbia: We are going to do it right.
S. Traficanti: Right, absolutely.
C. Carabbia: Orlie and I’s going to have to sit down with Joey Naples and Brier Hill, Jimmy…
O. Carabbia: You know that.
C. Carabbia: And we’re going to have to sit down with them and we’re going to have to talk about the county the way it should be. And, after all, you are the sheriff. They got to know too. That you got to tell them, Jim, what we gave and you better just tell them, we all sit down and you got to tell them listen, you four guys sit down here together and you four guys straighten it us.
O. Carabbia: Yeah.
C. Carabbia: Here, we let him tell you he’s got to do that… I told him to do… He’s got to do that.
J. Traficant: I told you I’d do that but here’s what we’re talking about the same thing we talked about last time.
O. Carabbia: Yeah but we gotta…
J. Traficant: Wait a minute where did he pay you the money we gave him last time. Do you guys think that I got more money or something.
C. Carabbia: no.
J. Traficant: OK, I told you 15, 15 and 25. O’Nesti said 5 for lumber. Every dime we got, I didn’t even open it. I brought it right down here.
C. Carabbia: Where.
J. Traficant: Sam’s $15,000, because I gotta show where I got the money.
O. Carabbia: yeah but (unintelligible)…
J. Traficant: Wait a minute, wait a minute. When I come to the report, they’re gonna say, Traficant, where’d you get 30,000. I got to show where I made the income. Now it wasn’t sellin’ no tickets. Everybody was laying off of me because of the party. That’s why Sam got the 15,000. I didn’t need him to get me 15,000.
C. Carabbia: Right
J. Traficant: But now Sam got to get his 15,000 plus interest and put in the bank.
O. Carabbia: OK, but remember…
J. Traficant: In fact, it wasn’t even Sam it was his brother-in-law.
S. Traficanti: It went through Carmen.
O. Carabbia: OK, but that’s all right but the money you brought here you didn’t give it and it was kept, it was his substitute is what I’m trying to tell you.
C. Carabbia: What do you mean, it was submitted.
O. Carabbia: Well, you know when I put that 15 on the side I gave 15 up.
J. Traficant: Yeah.
O. Carabbia: When you gave me 75 and 75, I gave the 75 up. You know, you told me to keep it like that for a purpose.
J. Traficant: Yeah.
O. Carabbia: But then I re…replaced.
J. Traficant: Yeah…
O. Carabbia: Do you understand what I’m talking about?
J. Traficant: Yeah…
O. Carabbia: All we did was change money. But actually what you got is what we’re figuring that when you sit down and the guy said OK. If you got half a truck and I got half of a truck it’s our truck. When we sit down we got a whole, it’s half and a half. Now, if there’s anybody else involved. Do you understand what I’m saying.
J. Traficant: Like there’s nobody else involved.
C. Carabbia: All right, this guy in Campbell that put the setup in Campbell for you, what’s his name.
J. Traficant: Buccilli.
C. Carabbia: Yeah, Buccilli took care of al of Campbell for you.
J. Traficant: Yeah
C Carabbia: All you’re going to give him is bonds, is that it?
J. Traficant: So0me bonds, yeah. That’s all our deal was.
C. Carabbia: OK, barbut and all that (vulgarity) ain’t got nothing to do…